Crimes against humanity.

[kerryg]

I think we are far more dependant on electicity,and that is not oil dependant.If someone found a way to selectively disable electricity our civilisation would crumble with far more devistating effect than the removal of oil.

I guess it's a bit hard to know which would be more devastating, no electricity ...or no air...or no beer....or no oil. Maybe it's not especially important though. Maybe with time there could be measures adopted that would lessen the effect (e.g. coal-based) but I have no doubt at all that a radical long-term disruption to oil supplies would tip the western world on its head for a generation or more.

Here's a scary thought: maybe Bush is the guardian of our collective wellbeing???? If so probably by accident though....

[Lou Girardin]

OK look at the war another way. Bush and Blair wanted to get rid of saddam and have a secular democracy in Iraq.
After last week's elections the have an Islamic Republic ala Iran, with three separate divisions Shiites, Sunni's and Kurds all controlling their respective provinces. The Shiites are in the majority and under Iranian influence.
So they've removed one Islamic dictatorship and replaced it with something very similar. But one that is inherently unstable and may still result in civil war.
A radical Isalmic cleric al Sadr is now the leader of parliament. This is the man that the Americans swore to kill.
So once again you have to ask, has it all been worth it?

[kerryg]

So once again you have to ask, has it all been worth it?

On the surface of it, no. Seems like a complete cock-up.

So there's me, a non-entity in a non-entity country, with no training in geo-politics and not that much of an education....and I can see the folly of it...but Bush and his numerous skilled advisers apparently can't.

What's wrong with that picture? What am I not seeing.......?

[oldrider]

For all the tree hugging anti-American peace nicks on here who are disgusted that America's interest in Iraq is only about oil, here's a protest you personally could make.
Stop using oil products. Don't ride your bikes. Be staunch stand up for what you believe.
Me, I'm thankful for the Americans. They die while we piss about in the shelter of their shadow.
I'm still riding my bike but I know who to thank for it, American/British/Australian servicemen. Grateful John.

[Skyryder]

No. Saddam acted against Kuwait when the US said it would not interfere.

YES YES YES. At last someone other than myself knows this. Saddam consulted Madalane Albright when she was Secretary of State and according to Time Magazine The United states 'had no interest' in the invasion of Kuwait. And why did Saddam invade Kuwait? A Greenie for the right answser.

Amearican policy changed when the Saudi's became alarmed.

THE WAR IN IRAQ IS A COMPLETE FUCKUP BECAUSE OF AMERICAN FOREIGHN POLICY HAD NO CLEAR GOALS OR INDEED HAD ANY IDEA OF WHAT THEY WANTED TO ACHEIVE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

And as for the Nuke thing the Americans knew that Saddam had destroyed his componentry for nuke. Khamal Hussein who was married to one of Saddams daughters was in charge of the Nuclear programme. When he and other members of Saddams family fled Iraq for Jordon he was debriefed by the CIA. Khamal was later shot by Uday.............I think it was him or the other son.

However having said all this some how I'd prefer the Americans to have Nuclear weapons than Saddam. And to me that is the fundamental question or in this case the fundamental answer.


Skyryder

[Hoon]

If we were forced to make such a choice (feeding our families vs. waging a war of questionable morality)...what would we do?

You don't go to war with another country just to take what is theirs...unless your last name is "Bush" that is.
Iraq was only producing 2% of the worlds oil however has the potential to produce much much more. This is what Bush and his oil baron pals are after. There are reports that Bush planned to invade Iraq even before 9/11 which he then conveniently used as a handy excuse.

However dubious Bush's reasons were for going to war it looks like it was all for nothing. The US is losing the War and under growing pressure to pull out, the Iran backed Shiites have won the election and Iraq oil production is at 1/3rd of what it was under Saddam. That means the world is now 2 million barrels a day worse off and this is why petrol prices are so high.

Bush took a gamble and lost and personally I believe he needs to be held accountable for it. As a soldier I have no problems risking my life to protect my friends/family and country but if I were sent off to die based on someones business decision it would be a different story.

[kro]

I once farted in a Toyota Cressida, on the way back from KihiKihi, after a hard night on the Red's and Waikato, and I was driving, and pushed the button that stops all the electric windows working, I should have been put on trial that day for genocide, as there were 3 others in the vehicle, and I asked them all if they could smell petrol.....