id

[Bartman10]

Here is the ID ruling, incase anyone cares.

In summary..

"The weight of the evidence clearly demonstrates, as noted, that the systemic change from “creation” to “intelligent design” occurred sometime in 1987, after the Supreme Court’s important Edwards decision. This compelling evidence strongly supports Plaintiffs’ assertion that ID is creationism re-labelled."
"Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources."
"To preserve the separation of church and state mandated by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and Art. I, § 3 of the Pennsylvania Constitution, we will enter an order permanently enjoining Defendants from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District, from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring teachers to refer to a religious, alternative theory known as ID."

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED THAT:
1. A declaratory judgment is hereby issued in favor of Plaintiffs pursuant
to 28 U.S.C. §§ 2201, 2202, and 42 U.S.C. § 1983 such that
Defendants’ ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause of the First
Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and Art. I, § 3 of
the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
2. Pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 65, Defendants are permanently enjoined
from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area
School District.
3. Because Plaintiffs seek nominal damages, Plaintiffs shall file with the
Court and serve on Defendants, their claim for damages and a verified
statement of any fees and/or costs to which they claim entitlement.
Defendants shall have the right to object to any such fees and costs to
the extent provided in the applicable statutes and court rules.

[Sniper]

Confused, too many big words

[SimJen]

big words, yep.
America is fucked up........all this creation vs evolution debate. Fuelled by the mass majority of redneck yanks who think the world revolves around their crap religion as they try to force it onto others.
Evolution is a scientific theory with overwhelming evidence to suggest its fact, whereas Creation is entirely made up but just happens to support the bibles series of events.......hmmmmm wonder which one the Religious nutters will support.

[mattt]

Here is the ID ruling, incase anyone cares.

In summary..

"The weight of the evidence clearly demonstrates, as noted, that the systemic change from “creation” to “intelligent design” occurred sometime in 1987, after the Supreme Court’s important Edwards decision. This compelling evidence strongly supports Plaintiffs’ assertion that ID is creationism re-labelled."
"Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources."
"To preserve the separation of church and state mandated by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and Art. I, § 3 of the Pennsylvania Constitution, we will enter an order permanently enjoining Defendants from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District, from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring teachers to refer to a religious, alternative theory known as ID."

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED THAT:
1. A declaratory judgment is hereby issued in favor of Plaintiffs pursuant
to 28 U.S.C. §§ 2201, 2202, and 42 U.S.C. § 1983 such that
Defendants’ ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause of the First
Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and Art. I, § 3 of
the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
2. Pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 65, Defendants are permanently enjoined
from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area
School District.
3. Because Plaintiffs seek nominal damages, Plaintiffs shall file with the
Court and serve on Defendants, their claim for damages and a verified
statement of any fees and/or costs to which they claim entitlement.
Defendants shall have the right to object to any such fees and costs to
the extent provided in the applicable statutes and court rules.

What the fuck is this?

[inlinefour]

What the fuck is this?

Are you sure its even in english???

[ManDownUnder]

In spite of the opinions of the previous callers - thanks.

Yeah - interesting. Who'd have thought Creationism and Intelligent Design were so closely related?

MDU

[Bartman10]

What the fuck is this?

There's a lot of background to it, but essentially some Americans wanted 'Intelligent Design' (i.e. creationism) taught in biology lessons. Their argument was that 'life is so complex that evolution is impossible' and, as typical Americans, took their argument to court.

The material posted above is a summary of the full report from the judge. (see attached .pdf for the full report)

In simple language – judge said “Intelligent Design = Creationism = violation of constitution (i.e. separation of church (creationism) and state (tax funded school system)”

[SimJen]

Whats the bet the nutters appeal...

[TwoSeven]

Actually the judge said you cant teach religion in a state school and dressing up religion with scientific terms is still religion and cant be taught.

We have the same law here as well.

[Damon]

religion with scientific terms

doesn't this include evolution as well? since it's still just a theory with a little evidence to back it up?

Evolution is a scientific theory with overwhelming evidence to suggest its fact

the religious guys would call finding Noah's Ark and Jesus' face cloth thing evidence as well,

If your going to start teaching "Theories" then teach them all and let the students make up their mind, it takes just as much faith to belive in Darwins theory as it does to belive in creation.

[ManDownUnder]

If your going to start teaching "Theories" then teach them all and let the students make up their mind, it takes just as much faith to belive in Darwins theory as it does to belive in creation.

And if the rest of society was run on religious principles I'd agree - so long as the other reglions got their crack as well. The story told in Genesis will no doubt have an equivalent in every religion and therefore should ahve equal opportunity to be aired in a classroom...

BUT

1) Western society is guided and based on Scientific methods. The great change happened a while ago - let's say 100 - 200 years ago, and I think it's time some people started to accept that
2) Teaching every variant of every creationism story in class wouldn't leave much time for other topic - you remember them - "the three R's"

I'm happy to creationism and ID to stay out of the classroom personally. If parent want their children to be taught or exposed to it, b all means - teach it themselves, get involved in a church, send the kids to Sunday School.

Just please give ME the option regarding my children's exposure to it. Coz guess which way I'd go...
MDU

[Storm]

Ahhh, you're a pack of heathen bikers you lot :P:P:P

[Damon]

Just please give ME the option regarding my children's exposure to it. Coz guess which way I'd go...
MDU

And what if christian/muslim/hindu families dont want their kids taught evolution?? it's not all about you,

Over the last 20 years there have been studies done in the US and each time no less than 44% of people poled have said that they don't belive in evolution.

Unfortunately the article didn't give values for the yes's and i don't know's but even at it's lowest at 44% is a lot of people that dont want to here about evolution

[ManDownUnder]

And what if christian/muslim/hindu families dont want their kids taught evolution?? it's not all about you,

It's a good point - although the attacking quip at the end wasn't necessary (so I'll ignore it..).

OK - so lets take evolution out of the mix too - what's left?

I'd also add that 44% not believing in evolution doesn't translate to 44% that don't want to hear about evolution. I believe it's needed for a balanced view of what might have happened so everyone can then think/choose/decide for themselves.

[TwoSeven]

doesn't this include evolution as well? since it's still just a theory with a little evidence to back it up?

Umm. No.

Science requires things to be both proven and observed. Since a supreme being can neither be proven or observed, its not science but religion. Religion is anything that requires faith to believe. There is a big difference between the two.

Darwinian evolution has been observed and proved and continues to be so.