How do I perform this manuver ?

**mops** · 28th December 2005, 15:13

Hi....

Driving around town I often find myself in that situation, yet I never know how to handle it properly, and I nearly came off the bike twice now....

I was hoping somebody more experienced will explain it to me

Here's the scenario:
You are driving 60kph, comming to the traffic lights (or other 90 degree junction) to turn left (or righ, it doesn't really matter, but assume left). You are using high gear, say 5th or 6th. You want to take the quick corner (I mean not excesively quick, but not slow down to 15 kph) - so you need to:
1. brake to reduce speed
2. reduce the gears before corner to use siutable in-corner gear (usually 2nd for me)

And here are my options....

1. braking entirely with rear wheel is not good enough, but allows me to change gears down, as it allows my rigth palm to blip throttle as I change gears down. I *can* change down to 2nd and slowly relase cluth durning the curve, but I dont think it's the right way, and it does feel dangerious and I had my rear wheel sliding for a split of a second which was very dangerous - nearly came off bike.

2. when braking with front wheel, i get the speed down ok, but as I change down gears, often the rear wheel will momentairly lock up and drift (esp. down on 3rd and 2nd gear), as I dont blip the throttle to match revs, because my right palm is busy pulling the front brake leaver.

It's almost like I should be both front-braking and bliping-throttle all with my right wrist, um... uh... it doesn't feel natural....

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell you want to have a correct gear fully engaged before you lean into the corner....

any ideas/comments ???

**WRT** · 28th December 2005, 15:16

Shouldnt be too much of a prob to "blip" the throttle while applying the brake, its not massively difficult.

Bigger issue, is what are you doing in 5th or 6th at 60kph??? I'm normally in 3rd at that speed.

**Sniper** · 28th December 2005, 15:22

That is bad. You should try the other manouver

**James Deuce** · 28th December 2005, 15:22

As WRT says you have to practice downchanging, blipping the throttle and using the front brake all at the same time. 90% of your braking power is in your front brake.

**mops** · 28th December 2005, 15:25

Originally Posted by WRT

Shouldnt be too much of a prob to "blip" the throttle while applying the brake, its not massively difficult.

Bigger issue, is what are you doing in 5th or 6th at 60kph??? I'm normally in 3rd at that speed.

well, my bandit runs over 5krpm at 60kph in 6th and exacly 6krpm in 5th, and it does feel like engine cruising speed. I do realize it is ridicolous, but the gears are so close together and i spend maby a second on every gear while normally accelerating to 60kph. :spudwhat:

**mops** · 28th December 2005, 15:27

Originally Posted by Jim2

As WRT says you have to practice downchanging, blipping the throttle and using the front brake all at the same time. 90% of your braking power is in your front brake.

road code for motorbikes claims it's 75%

LOL
never mind that. I'll have to try to learn properly. I'll try attending next meet, maby someone who know what they are doing will guide me

**James Deuce** · 28th December 2005, 15:28

Seriously, get used to using lower gears. Ignore the noise. Emergency avoidance techniques involve acceleration as well as braking, and at that engine speed the Bandit will bog if you request maximum performance from the engine room.

**James Deuce** · 28th December 2005, 15:29

Originally Posted by mops

road code for motorbikes claims it's 75%

LOL
never mind that. I'll have to try to learn properly. I'll try attending next meet, maby someone who know what they are doing will guide me

The road code model is based on 40 year old motorcycles. With drum brakes. Seriously. LTNZ knows exactly squat about motorcycle dynamics, or they wouldn't let roading engineers put manhole covers and big sheets of steel on the apex of corners, right where motorcycles need to run to be safest.

**Lou Girardin** · 28th December 2005, 15:30

Learn to brake with two fingers while blipping the throttle with the others.

**mops** · 28th December 2005, 15:34

Originally Posted by Jim2

Seriously, get used to using lower gears. Ignore the noise. Emergency avoidance techniques involve acceleration as well as braking, and at that engine speed the Bandit will bog if you request maximum performance from the engine room.

I'm not trying to argue, but at lower rpm's chaning down is easier and safer, as the engine is more willing to match the speed of the wheel. at higher rpm's the engine is more likely to skid the wheel if not matched up properly, which is dificult on it's own.

**James Deuce** · 28th December 2005, 15:39

Originally Posted by mops

I'm not trying to argue, but at lower rpm's chaning down is easier and safer, as the engine is more willing to match the speed of the wheel. at higher rpm's the engine is more likely to skid the wheel if not matched up properly, which is dificult on it's own.

You need to practice blipping the throttle to match engine and wheel speed until it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it. You've got less potential perfomance than a GN250's mid-range down there. I've owned a GSXR250 (17,000rpm redline, max torque at 10,500, max HP at 14,500), and they are much easier to ride with a fistful of revs onboard. It sounds and feels wrong at first, but that engine is made to be thrashed. Go on, you'll love it.

It is actually a safety issue as well, you need to be in the right gear, at the right revs, to be able to accelerate away cleanly and quickly if required.

**mops** · 28th December 2005, 15:49

Originally Posted by Jim2

You need to practice blipping the throttle to match engine and wheel speed until it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it. You've got less potential perfomance than a GN250's mid-range down there. I've owned a GSXR250 (17,000rpm redline, max torque at 10,500, max HP at 14,500), and they are much easier to ride with a fistful of revs onboard. It sounds and feels wrong at first, but that engine is made to be thrashed. Go on, you'll love it.

It is actually a safety issue as well, you need to be in the right gear, at the right revs, to be able to accelerate away cleanly and quickly if required.

my bandit redline starts at 14500, but the engine pulls till 18krpm.... I admit, it does feel gutles at 5krpm, it is siutable for just cruise but forget about quick acceleraion... I might overtage an old van ar 60kph, but that's it

I am concerned about longevity of the engine at crusing 9krpm... thats about motorway cruise speed....

I admit, more towards 8-10k rpm there's lot more power on-tap and acceleration can be snappy and quick and no wrx will hold on on a 'quick-stab' (or is it 'quick-twist' in bike world

) and pass

As I said, I'll get some proper synthetic oil and I'll go do some training

**fishb8nz** · 28th December 2005, 15:55

Is this urban driving? Read the road ahead and just throttle back with minimal braking. Just means slowing down 50 metres earlier. Blip the throttle as you downshift to the appropriate gear. I'm an old fart but a very incident free one.
Is your 3rd gear too high for right angles and roundabouts?

**James Deuce** · 28th December 2005, 15:57

Originally Posted by mops

As I said, I'll get some proper synthetic oil and I'll go do some training

Don't worry about longevity, and I'd probably use a semi-synth in your wee beast, just because a semi will leave traces in the bore and valve train for a little lube on start up, especially with the high revs that are called for almost immediately. I used to change oil every 3000kms in the GSXR250.

**mops** · 28th December 2005, 16:09

Originally Posted by fishb8nz

Is this urban driving? Read the road ahead and just throttle back with minimal braking. Just means slowing down 50 metres earlier. Blip the throttle as you downshift to the appropriate gear. I'm an old fart but a very incident free one.
Is your 3rd gear too high for right angles and roundabouts?

yeach, 3rd is too high for right angle to the left, right and roundabouts possibly ok... I founf if I start braking too early, the traffick following me has to slow down too much and they are piling up on my tail as I slow down and they hardly leave any speace for stopping between me and the car behind, so if for any reason I come off the bike they will drive over me one by one until they will eventually.... technically this is how it's supposed to be done and definitely follows the road code,but I just dont trust other drivers, especially when I'm on the bike and definitely wouldnt leave my faith in their hands...

you see there might be a situation that where the car directly behind me does slow down in time, but the car behind him rams up his arse and that means I'm gonna get it... I just prefer to accelerate to get some distance, quickly slow down and turn it, without blocking the traffic behind me...