Lost skills and capabilities.

[Pathos]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.

[oldrider]

Well maybe you are right it seems more about their attitudes than mine.

Today my daughter, son in law and kids, went up to the trail bike area for some riding. (They all have their own bikes)

They were driven off the tracks by loonies in 4x4 cages hooning around the tracks especially dangerous on the little kids tracks.

I give up on holiday makers we go from 50 odd people living here to about 20,000 over the holiday period.

That is a big change but it is worth it if they weren't so, me, me, me, orientated.

Many others are expressing the same thing this year. It's very disappointing.

So many of them are nice friendly people but laced up with some real fucking lunatics.

This year I will be glad when they all piss off back home, (haven't felt like that before) it seems to be the worst crowd ever.

We usually look forward to the holiday crowds but this year, sheeesh! Cheers John.

[scumdog]

Young people are like so way amazing.

I can tell you're not young - otherwise you would have fitted like about six more likes in like your comment.

Am I old too or is it true that a hell of a lot of young males seem to around with a look on their face that somebody just ran over their puppy??

Dealing with a whole lot of younger ones is tough going John, there's always a motor-mouth who lets fly with smart/nasty comments and a whole lot his lakeys that giggle and "yeah, yeah" in a sycophantic way - especially if they don't know you.

Keep trying, if they're locals you'll get some success.

[scumdog]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.

I think oldtimer was just pointing out possible negative consequences....

Something that a lot of young ones do not seem to comprehend, they don't think more than a few seconds down the track...

[Firefight]

read you story with interst, can't offer you a solution., I agree with a lot of what the others have said, I don,t think it's you.as has been said before don't be so hard on your self.

I do think that heaps of young guys out there do respect people a bit older than them, In fact I know that cause I have meet heaps of young guys like that on kb.

Sadly you have come up against some shitbag scrotes and I can understand how you feel.

I worked as a warden at the woodhill motorcycle park for 5 years, in that time I meet heaps of cool riders, some older(not that many)heaps younger,

I had a more than a few run ins with shit bags, sadly thats life, few times I have been threatned, twice robbed of the takings, once had my private vehicle broken into, had the whole maori land right thing shoved in my face.
and shit loads of other things .

And despite all that I had a great time, I meet some great people, learnt heaps, made some dam good friends.

You do what you can, but don,t take any risks with your own safety.

Good luck to you, and respect for what you have tried to do.

F/F

[oldrider]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.

Hi Pathos, you got my drift in the first post of this thread.

The boys did take it that I was complaining at them rather than just letting them know that the area was always under threat by do-gooders etc

My annoyance at the encroachment on the ground by campers probably carried over in my demeanor when talking to them and they took me up wrong.

It is difficult as an older person not to appear to talk down to youngsters and I am conscious not to do that when approaching them.

They were not really causing any trouble but to continue and perhaps have an accident would bring negative attention to the designated bike area.

I did not make a very good job of approaching and talking with them, that was "my" initial problem not so much "theirs."

My initial question was "why do older people lose the ability to communicate effectively with young people"?

The people in the 4x4's up there today were not as young as the boys yesterday and they were a bunch of yobbos.

Life seems so complicated today. Cheers John.

[idb]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.

That's just stupid and short-sighted. What an idiot.
Tossers that act like tossers f*ck it up for themselves and others.
They'll come back next year or the year after and find the area closed to everyone. How clever!
My current pet hate - and it might be because of the alcohol bans in main streets and cricket games at this time of year, I can't say for sure - is laws being made for wankers and f*ckwits affecting my enjoyment.
Look at the riot at AlbertTown this year.
Look at past years in Mt Maunganui.
It all means new laws to quieten everyone down ya stupid pricks!!!
Do ya want the drinking age increased again? Now what would be the best way to achieve that I wonder? Hmmm, try bottling some cop cars and terrorising some families maybe?!

At least you had a go John but I know how it feels to to try to make a dignified exit when you've tried to take a reasoned approach and ended up facing a hostile pack of idiots.
Could the area be closed over the holiday period? As a safety issue?

[idb]

Grrrrrrrrrr.......!!!!!!

[Pathos]

Hi Pathos, you got my drift in the first post of this thread.

The boys did take it that I was complaining at them rather than just letting them know that the area was always under threat by do-gooders etc

My annoyance at the encroachment on the ground by campers probably carried over in my demeanor when talking to them and they took me up wrong.

It is difficult as an older person not to appear to talk down to youngsters and I am conscious not to do that when approaching them.

They were not really causing any trouble but to continue and perhaps have an accident would bring negative attention to the designated bike area.

I did not make a very good job of approaching and talking with them, that was "my" initial problem not so much "theirs."

My initial question was "why do older people lose the ability to communicate effectively with young people"?

The people in the 4x4's up there today were not as young as the boys yesterday and they were a bunch of yobbos.

Life seems so complicated today. Cheers John.

The only way you could get those guys to listen to your is to become black and make some shit rap songs, about how you've got lots of women, guns, money and like to kill people lots. Thats the kind of attitude many of my generation unfortunately have.

I would have acheived just as much as you, its got nothing to do with age just the circumstances.

[Pathos]

That's just stupid and short-sighted. What an idiot.
Tossers that act like tossers f*ck it up for themselves and others.
They'll come back next year or the year after and find the area closed to everyone. How clever!
My current pet hate - and it might be because of the alcohol bans in main streets and cricket games at this time of year, I can't say for sure - is laws being made for wankers and f*ckwits affecting my enjoyment.
Look at the riot at AlbertTown this year.
Look at past years in Mt Maunganui.
It all means new laws to quieten everyone down ya stupid pricks!!!
Do ya want the drinking age increased again? Now what would be the best way to achieve that I wonder? Hmmm, try bottling some cop cars and terrorising some families maybe?!

At least you had a go John but I know how it feels to to try to make a dignified exit when you've tried to take a reasoned approach and ended up facing a hostile pack of idiots.
Could the area be closed over the holiday period? As a safety issue?

What safety issue? I didn't see any.

If there is one or they were being overly annoying to campers then I would have posted something else.

The biggest problem you have posted is that councils are making blanket laws that are affecting everyone rather than just the culprits. You can only blame the councils for that.

[Sketchy_Racer]

hmmmm

to me IMHO, i believe it is 90% the fault of the parents problem.

These kids scream and shout at their parents at home, and get away with it. So when they are out on the street they think they can do the same thing!!

Im a young teen, and it amazes even me what these little shits say to their elders!! i think they all need a good ass kicking!!

I was brought up in a very displined family. If i stood out side the line i knew all about it. Yea ok so my parents were a bit harsh on me, but it didnt kill me. Now that i have got a little older they can trust me cause i dont do the stupid shit these other young guns get up to, eg insulting elders trying to give them a litle hint.

Some times the shit some old people tell me is off the chart, how i shouldnt be on the road on my bike, Even though it is completly wof reged and stuff..
But i always take it in the slide and get over it. Theres no point getting smart back, it doesnt get you anywhere.

Rant over

Glenn

[Colapop]

I coach rugby to a bunch of under 15's. You can get the same response from them. It's a different situation, I know, but I think the communication thing remains the same. To communicate effectively to a group you must identify which members of the group have the greatest say with the majority. Then talk to them/address them individually. Divide and conquer so to speak.

As I said U15's are very different to 18-25's but I think the rationale is of communication is just as effective. Yes there is a generation gap, there always has been and that won't change. The difference today is that our kids have been taught to challenge everything, unfortuntely they do not have the knowledge and experience to understand the respect that goes hand in hand with that.

John, keep talking. For the 10 maybe 20 kids that get smartarsed back or shoot their mouth off, if just one of them learns something from you and it makes them a better person then you've done the right thing. Good on you John.
Col

[idb]

What safety issue? I didn't see any.

Four wheel drives & cars tearing around on a motorbike track maybe?

The biggest problem you have posted is that councils are making blanket laws that are affecting everyone rather than just the culprits. You can only blame the councils for that.

No, it's the fault of the idiots who can't control themselves.
Stop trying to shift the blame, that's what the idiots do.

Down here, until two years ago, there were annual open-air concerts at Millbrook Resort of some old band that had been dragged out of a crypt somewhere, had life breathed into them and put on stage.
They were the sort of band that didn't interest the idiots that we are discussing.
Creedence Clearwater Revival, Doobie Brothers, Chicago, Lulu.
They attracted an audience of a certain age up to around 10,000 people if I remember right.
The concerts became legendary for the amount of alcohol that was trundled through the gates. Store barrows packed with cartons of beer and wine, and folks just rolled out of the show at the end of the day and hit the pubs of Arrowtown or Queenstown.
In the 6 or 7 years that they were on the cops had next to nothing to do (SD might be able to confirm this) and everyone was happy, sunburnt and very, very drunk (until a local wowser complained about host responsibility etc, etc and got a stop put to it all but that's another gripe).
The only trouble I ever saw was from the odd younger idiot who couldn't handle the piss and got out of hand.

I think the Millbrook concerts demonstrated a few things about crowd behaviour but what would have happened if 'potential idiots' had been turned away at the gate? How would you identify them or would you just wait until they started causing trouble, ruined a few people's day and then tossed them out?
The only way to police these things in this age of personal liberty without responsibility is to apply the same rules to everyone, and unfortunately they have to cater for the worst and treat everyone like a potential idiot.

I think I managed to bring everything together there

[idb]

Some times the shit some old people tell me is off the chart, how i shouldnt be on the road on my bike, Even though it is completly wof reged and stuff..
But i always take it in the slide and get over it. Theres no point getting smart back, it doesnt get you anywhere.

Quite right, being older doesn't automatically make you wiser.
Lifes too short to worry about fools, no matter what their age.

[chickenfunkstar]

Of all the skills and capabilities I have had to endure and accept the loss of as I have aged, I think the one I feel the greatest loss, is the ability to be able to communicate on an equal footing with younger people. Especially strangers.....

.....Any suggestions advice thoughts or comments would be welcome as I feel this loss or deterioration of communication with younger ones is extremely disappointing and I'm fucked if I know what to do about it. Disappointed, John.

John, I doubt that its got anything to do with communication skills. No matter how you would have worded it, it would have seemed like you as an individual was trying to tell a group that what they were doing was wrong. They had decided as a group that doing skids was acceptable behaviour and that was that.

Its not just young people who like the odd skid either. I remember at the KB track day in Taupo some people were doing a few burnouts on the gravel on bikes as they left. The track manager piped up and said something along the lines of 'If anyone else does that on the way out, i'll ban you all from the track' Heaps of people who were still there shared a 'what a wanker, who cares, its only a shitty gravel driveway anyway' look. There was more than a couple of under the breath mutterings going on as well.
As a group, most people seemed to think that a bit of a skid when leaving was ok and any outsider who thought otherwise was a bit of a dick.