Guns and Shooting.

[Sniper]

What sucks is, I know a fair bit about targets, range work, ballistics. I have only ever shot rabits and never been hunting. I suppose there are too many variables to condsider than just lying down and pitting the ace at 700 yards?

[Swoop]

What sucks is, I know a fair bit about targets, range work, ballistics. I have only ever shot rabits and never been hunting. I suppose there are too many variables to condsider than just lying down and pitting the ace at 700 yards?

Sniper. What was your "tool of trade" or preferred option? Cal, etc...

[Wolf]

Wolf, I am bleeding for you (having to sell the Miroku).

The only plus was: I sold it for more than I paid for it.

When I got it the stock looked like it had been used as a hockey stick and the blue was patchy.

I stripped it down, taking care to note how it came apart, bought a tube of bluing gunk - can't remember the brandname - and reblued the barrel, receiver and a few smaller bits - doused it in boiling water to set it and rinse off the excess compound. A rub with gun oil and it looked factory.

I stripped the varnish off the stock, held it over the boiling jug until the dings came out. There was only one gouge but that was small and close to the trigger guard, hardly noticeable. Sanded the stock to smooth the soft wood that had risen, liberally oiled it with linseed then sanded it again while still wet with linseed and the stock came up like glass.

Reassembled, the rifle looked like a million bucks.

Yep, I was gutted having to sell it. The big laugh: the gunshop I sold it to, for more than I paid for it, was the shop who sold it to me originally - so I figure I improved its value enough that they could make a profit above what they paid me.

[MSTRS:Me]

Wolf - you are nothing if not a class act. Still a shame to part with a loved possession.

[Wolf]

Wolf - you are nothing if not a class act. Still a shame to part with a loved possession.

Would have another any day if I could afford it. If someone said "Oh, I picked up a Miroku lever action in good condition", I'd be confident they have a bloody great weapon.

[Sparky Mark]

Well, I went up to Dead Eye Dicks on Saturday - thanks for the phone numbers and directions!

I had a really good chat with the guy up there. He was very good and gave me some great advice on what I would need based on my circumstances. I didn't feel like he was trying to push anything on me which was good, and also he didn't try to sell me anything too expensive unlike some of the other places I've been looking at.

So, basically out of the guns he showed me, a new Remington bolt action looks like it could be the one. Stainless barrell - not the smooth type but the pitted kind. Synthetic stock very lightweight. Comes with an average scope, I can upgrade when the time comes.

He suggested a .308 or .270 for the kind of stuff I'm likely to be doing. The .308 ammo I know I can get pretty cheap which is also a consideration. But the .270 can be pretty expensive if your'e just plinking.

decisions decisions....

[scumdog]

Stainless barrell - not the smooth type but the pitted kind. Synthetic stock very lightweight. Comes with an average scope, I can upgrade when the time comes.

He suggested a .308 or .270 for the kind of stuff I'm likely to be doing. The .308 ammo I know I can get pretty cheap which is also a consideration. But the .270 can be pretty expensive if your'e just plinking.

decisions decisions....

Remember: all things being equal the lighter the rifle the harder the 'kick' (recoil)

308 plusses: Shorter action (though watch it, some outfits use a long action for everything) which is lighter/faster. Bigger range of bullet weights and ammo CAN be cheaper.
270 plusses: higher velocity, 'flatter' shooting (not as much drop for a given range)

Recoil for both is equal for same bullet weight but as most 308s are around 175grn and most 270s around 130grn you may 'feel' more kick from 308.

[Sparky Mark]

Remember: all things being equal the lighter the rifle the harder the 'kick' (recoil)

308 plusses: Shorter action (though watch it, some outfits use a long action for everything) which is lighter/faster. Bigger range of bullet weights and ammo CAN be cheaper.
270 plusses: higher velocity, 'flatter' shooting (not as much drop for a given range)

Recoil for both is equal for same bullet weight but as most 308s are around 175grn and most 270s around 130grn you may 'feel' more kick from 308.

Thanks Scumdog. He did say the same at DED's. Although the remington has a good recoil buffer which he said would help in that department. I'm also used to shotguns which is what we grew up with on the farm in the UK. The recoil is apparently similar.
The downside to the .270 he said may be that for deer etc you may have to hit it in the right place to ensure a kill depending on distance. The owner of the shop apparently still 'loses' a few with his. So maybe as a first gun the .308 may be cheaper and more 'forgiving' until I get a little more experience in?

[scumdog]

The downside to the .270 he said may be that for deer etc you may have to hit it in the right place to ensure a kill depending on distance. The owner of the shop apparently still 'loses' a few with his. So maybe as a first gun the .308 may be cheaper and more 'forgiving' until I get a little more experience in?

Yep, I find the recoil to be that of a light 12 guage shotgun.

If the dude is losing deer with a 270 he's not shooting them in the right places OR he's not using the correct type of bullet (projectile), should be knocking them over no-sweat.

Nothing wrong with 270 but from experience and personal favouritism I would go the 308 way. Shoot a deer with a 308 and you'll have a LITTLE more leeway for bullet placement BUT if you only wound a deer it will still go probably as far as it would with a 270 (Yet to not drop one with my 308 so only going by anecdotal evidence here!)

[Sparky Mark]

Yep, I find the recoil to be that of a light 12 guage shotgun.

If the dude is losing deer with a 270 he's not shooting them in the right places OR he's not using the correct type of bullet (projectile), should be knocking them over no-sweat.

Nothing wrong with 270 but from experience and personal favouritism I would go the 308 way. Shoot a deer with a 308 and you'll have a LITTLE more leeway for bullet placement BUT if you only wound a deer it will still go probably as far as it would with a 270 (Yet to not drop one with my 308 so only going by anecdotal evidence here!)

Thanks for that.
I think the .308 will be the one. As a matter of interest do you know anything about these Remingtons?
Price wise it seems like a good package as it comes fully scoped and ready roll for $1100. From what I've seen it doesn't look bad. I've seen the rifles advertised at Gun City without the scope for $999. I know the scope is average - he told me that.

[Wolf]

Remember: all things being equal the lighter the rifle the harder the 'kick' (recoil)

You need to work out a trade-off between "heavy enough that the kick is not excessive" and "too heavy to lug around the bush for protracted periods". Calibre and projectile weight factor in - as SD said, the "standard" loads for .308 and .270 are such that .308 may appear to kick more but lighter projectiles are more easily deflected than heavy ones.

[crash harry]

If you want to shoot goats, there's no better rifle than the SKS. Or if you've got your E cat, an AK with a full 30rd mag. If you come accross a mob of 20 or so it's nice to know you've got the firepower to drop the lot (whether or not they stick around long enough is another matter...) 7.62x39 is great for goats, adequate for pigs, and OK on smaller deer out to about 100m or so.

I'd stay away from the Saiga - it's a nice gun for the money, and I was this close (picture me holding my fingers not very far apart..) to buying one - but they weigh a friggin ton! And the barrel is pretty long. Not much of a bush gun really, they'd be perfect for culling from a chopper though (so I'm told). 308W is a bloody good cartridge though for all the reasons that SD stated and more. Just watch that .308W and 7.62x51 NATO are not exactly the same - the military brass sometimes has headspacing problems in sporting rifles which can be dangerous, but just usually causes the cases to stick in the action. Resist the cheap ex-mil plinking ammo!

I reckon the perfect goat/pig/deer bush gun is a winchester 30-30 with open sights. Light, small, reasonably punchy over modest distances. Optics don't really help my accuracy much I find unless I've got somewhere to sit down and prepare the shot nicely. Open sights are light and small and they don't get knocked off target.

I have to agree on the Miroku 308 lever actions as well - there was one on Tardme (I think it's still there?) with about $400 on it the other night.

BTW. if anyone HAS such a 30-30 and wants to trade/part trade for a mint Zastava .223 bolt action... PM away...

[crash harry]

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oops sorry about that

[Pixie]

And to balance up this redneck thread...



Guns could be a fun thing at a riflerange shooting at targets - But if think it is "fun" to kill things then you would be....well...let me say it with a quote from renown biologist R. Carson:

"Until we havethe courage to recognise cruelty for what it is - whether its victim is human or animal - we cannot expect things to be much better in this world...we cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolorates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity"



BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????


(Scottish thread coming......)

Mmmmm cuddle the fluffy bunnies

[Pixie]

But of course, you could be right, it probably would be much better if we lived on tofu and mung beans

Noooo! That would mean we would be hippies and would have to commit suicide