Where did the prejudice begin?

**kro** · 23rd January 2006, 05:40

I've often wondered what the rationale is behind the staunch "no Japanese bikes allowed" group of riders, frequently seen on Hogs, Beemers, and Various Italian and Brit machinery.
If you are one of these people, and are reading this, I make no apologies, just get over it.

My question is where and why did this form of road based racism originate?. I call it racism, because it can't possibly be about the quality and/or reliability of the bike itself, as in my personal experience, the Japanese win this hands down every time.
Is it because the Japanese were active agressors in the war?...... so were the Germans, yet you can ride a beemer in a group of harleys, and not get beaten to a pulp, and have ya bike set on fire.

Where did this all come from?, what makes a man/woman deluded enough to want to limit their choice of rides to the most expensive, and sometimes unreliable makes?. A close personal friend of mine was an active Motorcycle gang member, and was a staunch Harley only advocate. When he got shafted by the gang, he quit them, and confided in me that he was going to do something he always wanted to, and buy a GSXR750, and go "have some fun in the hills"

Any ideas who/why/where/what started this?, Ive often hypothesised, but would be keen to hear others ideas.

**buellbabe** · 23rd January 2006, 06:08

Yep its a mystery... I've ridden HDs for yrs and seen alot of that kind of snobbery, its one of my pet hates. Now I have seen the light and ride a Buell I find that I get snobbed by some HD riders who for some strange reason think that their shit doesn't stink... well it does!
Personally I am of the view that so long as it has 2 wheels and an engine its OK by me.
Actually things aren't as bad as they used to be and I reckon Buell has done alot to break down that "cruiser-V-cafe racer" mindset. Bad-ass Biker blokes that secretly wanted to get off the HOG could jump on a Buell and still "technically-speaking" be riding a Harley since Harley own Buell... and from there it was an easy step to branch out further...Now when I frequent the Puhoi ( for those down Sth thats a re-nown Biker pub nth of Auck ) there is a great mixture of various bike brands and people and no-one gives a shit what you ride! They are more interested in how far you wheel-stand down the road!!!
JUST DO IT!!

**Motu** · 23rd January 2006, 06:46

For a start,it's not a Harley thing,there were no Harley Davidsons sold in New Zealand when this thinking came about in the late 60s,early 70s,there were also no,um..''sects'' or whatever,like sportsbike,cruiser etc - you rode a bike,it was most likely British and that was that.Then the Japanese came and broke it all up,there was some resentment.

We were not that long out of the 2nd World War,and you still came across guys who had fought the Japanese,or the Germans for that matter,I remember working with mechanics who wouldn't buy German tools,the Japanese didn't even make tools back then.Japanese products were very low quality,if you bought something Made in Japan it was sure to break...and I remember at school we were told never to buy Japanese pencils because the lead alway broke,and it was true.There was further resentment because the Japanese refused to recognise Patents and copywrites,they copied Western products and floaded ther market with poor quality cheap look alikes.There was a fair bit of resentment which got rather polarised with motorcycles.

Kinda of funny when you see the Japanese now getting upset with China not recognising Patents and flooding the market with cheap low quality copies of their products.Some members of this site are heaping scorn upon mini choppers from China - some things never change.

**Skyryder** · 23rd January 2006, 06:46

Not realy sure. The first I came across this was in the early sixties with the British bike here. Basicly if you rode a bike it was a Brit bike. Then the Japanese bike started to dominate. This attitude is bad in the states. They have parking for the Harleys out front and all other bikes are out the back. Personally I'd ride with a pushbike if they could keep up.

Skyryder

**Dafe** · 23rd January 2006, 06:56

Because if you put most Hog Riders on a late model 1000, they'll either be dead a few corners later or they'll be in a tangled mess after another sport bike rider has tail ended them after not expecting them to virtually come to a crawl around a corner.

However, Put a sportbike rider on a Harley and they'll quickly become bored.

About 4 weeks ago, all the Wellington crew pulled up at our usual pub, we were dismounting and parking up the bikes and this guy with his family in the car, rolls past staring and then he yells out - Get a real bike! Buy a Harley, not that cheap Japanese crap! Nothing more said as he drives off in his Mitsubishi!

**Rashika** · 23rd January 2006, 07:17

Originally Posted by Dafe

Because if you put most Hog Riders on a late model 1000, they'll either be dead a few corners later or they'll be in a tangled mess after another sport bike rider has tail ended them after not expecting them to virtually come to a crawl around a corner.!

of course! that explains why all the litre bikes DONT get crashed around here

Originally Posted by Dafe

However, Put a sportbike rider on a Harley and they'll quickly become bored.

I think everyone is different, eh...
Just as well, hate to be one of the clones!

**scumdog** · 23rd January 2006, 07:32

'Cos WE'RE better, our BIKES are better and the rest of you suck big-time!!!

Seriously? Don't know, never had that problem, ride with a shit-load of others on a shit-load of 'other' makes, we all give shit to each other about each others choice of bike ( though I'm sure i get most of the shit and I ride a H-D, what went wrong with the plot that H-D riders GIVE shit, not receive it???

**ManDownUnder** · 23rd January 2006, 07:47

A variety of racing classes have historically been established to enable competitive racing with other on like machines.

BEARS is an example that fits this conversation nicely. No Japs allowed.

No biggy - it's the same kind of distinction they put on the V8 series if your think about it (no V6's allowed... or V12s)

As for the whole "I hate Jap bikes" thing, or "I hate HOGS" or... yaaaa it's personal preference possibly combined or reinforced by wanting to sound like your mates.

I personally don't like cruisers... not enough to want to ride one anyway. But hell - if you do, and you like 'em - go for it. I'll take the piss out of cruiser riders anyday, but only because I expect them to do the same for me.

A genuine and generalised "hatred" of one form of bike over another is just small thinking.

Bugger - another 2c gone...

**merv** · 23rd January 2006, 08:26

The fact the Japanese bikes started selling well in the 60's and started annihilating the British industry didn't help either, let alone success on the track e.g. Mike Hailwood at the Isle of Man 1961. You know how it is this is standard law of the jungle stuff - if we aren't top dog we start running the other person down like we hate them (if you are a confident recipient of this you say it is caused by their jealousy and you don't give a shit). When its culture against culture then its racism.

However, I think there is hope. Whether its the draconian PC laws or its a different breed of rider out there that's bringing us all together I don't know, but this summer on the road I must say I have never seen the Harley boys more friendly - hell they even wave at me if I'm on one of the dirt bikes. Jap riders can be accused of being snobs in that regard as many ignore the dirt bike fraternity - like does that mean they "know" we don't own a road bike? - yeah right!!

This forum is going some way towards uniting at least a few thousand of us so that's a start.

As for bikes I like mine with the right feel, like my women, so I have been totally comfortable with Jappas and once you are used to them everything else looks weird with dicky controls and stuff like that. It will look the same from the other side.

However, its two wheels that I enjoy and I will ride anything as the chance presents itself, even vintage stuff, it just doesn't mean I'll race out and buy them.

I have the same feeling about cars. All this V8 racing is the rave now (same motivation - anti Jap - Godzilla was too good), but every time I drive a rear drive Aussie tank I think WTF. The bloody great transmission hump pushes your feet offset to the right and you can't even sit straight on in the car with so little footwell space - and as for the controls, they are usually pretty poor. Had a rental Holden last year that we are driving along in thinking, as we came up behid a smelly stock truck, how do you put this on recirc? - well bugger me the symbol for that was hidden behind the pointer on the knob when it was on another setting and it took a while to discover that. I'm a short guy and I just don't fit those cars (Holden or Ford) like I would like to if I were to buy one.

So I'm not prejudiced, but I sure as hell know what I like.

**scumdog** · 23rd January 2006, 08:35

Originally Posted by merv

This forum is going some way towards uniting at least a few thousand of us so that's a start.

but every time I drive a rear drive Aussie tank I think WTF. The bloody great transmission hump pushes your feet offset to the right and you can't even sit straight on in the car with so little footwell space - and as for the controls, they are usually pretty poor..

So I'm not prejudiced, but I sure as hell know what I like.

Drove a Subaru 'work' car, drivers foot-well felt like it was designed by one of those old Chinese women with the bound -up small feet, would possibly suit a person of my size who had only one foot..

(When front wheel drive cars first came out the big 'thing' was a flatter floor/more foot room - now they have just as big a hump as any rear-wheel drive, what happened??)

Not for this boy but if they turn your crank then go for it - I'm not going to bag your choice of cage.

A lot of 'bagging' seems to come from younger ones - maybe we get more tollerant as we get older??

**R1madness** · 23rd January 2006, 08:51

Actually i now find its a case of the jap bike riders slagging off the hogs/brits etc so much its no wonder they dont bother talking to us. I have owned a few HDs over the years and the sport bikers just do the snob thing. They waved to me if i had my 2piece on and i was on my sports bike but if i was in my blacks and on my HOG its snob city.
People dont understand what they dont know. Try a HOG, have a laugh, Its not going to suddenly make ya grow a beard and grow 3 inches in the arms. Sure it will be slow but i bet you never seen so many sparks around a round about.
All bikes are fun, you just got to find out.

**Oscar** · 23rd January 2006, 09:00

Originally Posted by Motu

For a start,it's not a Harley thing,there were no Harley Davidsons sold in New Zealand when this thinking came about in the late 60s,early 70s,there were also no,um..''sects'' or whatever,like sportsbike,cruiser etc - you rode a bike,it was most likely British and that was that.Then the Japanese came and broke it all up,there was some resentment.

Yeah, when I was about 18, I remember the old codgers in the HMCC saying "Nuthin' handles like a Truimph". They didn't understand why we fell about laughing...

**Indiana_Jones** · 23rd January 2006, 09:03

The haterid stems from the Clone wars....

-Indy

**rasty** · 23rd January 2006, 09:12

I do notice that lot of Harley riders don't bother waving or even acknowleding a wave. Is it a Harley thing or maybe just that a lot of new "old in age but first bike" riders choose a Harley without knowing about or just not really understanding the whole bike bit? I get sick of mates (and others) when they know I have another bike saying "Is it a Harley" and then looking disappointed when I tell them no.

**Oscar** · 23rd January 2006, 09:51

Originally Posted by rasty

I do notice that lot of Harley riders don't bother waving or even acknowleding a wave. Is it a Harley thing or maybe just that a lot of new "old in age but first bike" riders choose a Harley without knowing about or just not really understanding the whole bike bit? I get sick of mates (and others) when they know I have another bike saying "Is it a Harley" and then looking disappointed when I tell them no.

The best reason I've heard for Harley riders not waving is that they're too scared to take one hand off the bars...