Tyre wave pattern

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 31st January 2006, 22:44

Originally Posted by TwoSeven

That doesnt at all sound right.

Can you explain the logic further ? - the math would be good

How does preload affect uneven tire wear ?

How does a bike squat under acceleration ?

Any ideas on why this happens? Sounds like I am not the only one that has it. I am pleased about that.:spudflip:

**DEATH_INC.** · 1st February 2006, 04:21

Torque reaction on the chain/ sprockets causes the rear to lift (under accel),weight transfer causes squat,must be real soft if it's squatting.
Try (as ts said) more preload AND more compression damping.Check static sag,should be about 5mm(no rider) or just keep going 'till the squat dissapears.
Stick with the 190.
Get rid of the diabolical and get a real tyre

These bikes love a 15mm or so raise in rear ride height too, done with a 5mm (or thereabouts) spacer on top of the shock.

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 06:30

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

Torque reaction on the chain/ sprockets causes the rear to lift (under accel),weight transfer causes squat,must be real soft if it's squatting.
Try (as ts said) more preload AND more compression damping.Check static sag,should be about 5mm(no rider) or just keep going 'till the squat dissapears.
Stick with the 190.
Get rid of the diabolical and get a real tyre

These bikes love a 15mm or so raise in rear ride height too, done with a 5mm (or thereabouts) spacer on top of the shock.

Wow. The fact that I am 110 kg and 6' 1" might be part of the problem. I will play with the preload and check the sag. This bike is firm to ride so I will take the adjustments a few clicks at a time. Looking forward to it.

And pray tell, what is a real tyre Death? Remember the pilot sport did the same thing.

Lifting rear ride......The bolt looks long enough so not to hard to do. This would push more weight to the front wouldn't it?

Thanks for your time Death. Roll on da weekend.

**R1madness** · 1st February 2006, 07:10

TWOSEVEN - What doesn't sound right? 5.5inch rims are designed for 180 tyres except for the single type of one that was fitted to the bike from new by the manufactures. This tyre is specially designed to the bike manufactures specifications. (eg TL1000s metzeller fronts) ALso it would have been a JAPANESE 190 which when measured on the rim and compared to a european 190 of the same brand and model would be a completely different size.
Now if you try to squeeze a euro 190 onto a 5.5 rim you deform the carcase. Grab a new 190 and squeeze it in so the outside of the beads are 5.5 inches apart. Look at the trye. now let the beads out by 1/2 an inch. What a difference.
Dont believe me? Try it and see for yourself
All to often i see people with the wrong size tyres on and all they do is complain about the handling. It turns in too slow, it runs wide, its pushing the front blah blah blah.
Yea up the preload by heaps add a click or 2 of compression and rebound and go for a ride. Raise the ride height as well but the biggest difference you can make is to go back to the CORRECT tyre sizes.

**sugilite:Me** · 1st February 2006, 09:16

Is your wheel in straight in the swingarm?
The factory alignment marks are not always accurate, if it is a screw and lock nut adjustment, count the threads on the adjuster each side to be sure.

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 09:55

Originally Posted by R1madness

TWOSEVEN - What doesn't sound right? 5.5inch rims are designed for 180 tyres except for the single type of one that was fitted to the bike from new by the manufactures. This tyre is specially designed to the bike manufactures specifications. (eg TL1000s metzeller fronts) ALso it would have been a JAPANESE 190 which when measured on the rim and compared to a european 190 of the same brand and model would be a completely different size.
Now if you try to squeeze a euro 190 onto a 5.5 rim you deform the carcase. Grab a new 190 and squeeze it in so the outside of the beads are 5.5 inches apart. Look at the trye. now let the beads out by 1/2 an inch. What a difference.
Dont believe me? Try it and see for yourself
All to often i see people with the wrong size tyres on and all they do is complain about the handling. It turns in too slow, it runs wide, its pushing the front blah blah blah.
Yea up the preload by heaps add a click or 2 of compression and rebound and go for a ride. Raise the ride height as well but the biggest difference you can make is to go back to the CORRECT tyre sizes.

Hmmm. you could have a point. I was unaware of the difference in the size. And I can imagine a 1/2 inch would seriously change the shape. I have had a look at the rim and along with the usual stuff cast in to it, it has the number 9/6 on one spoke. This would be to show year of manufacture and the other spoke has /6. Size? So when I take this tyre off I will measure the rim.
The bike handles really well. It corners and rides as I would expect it to.
This bike was Craig Sheriffs race bike in the 96-97 street season and as far as I can find out it was running these rims and the 190 tyre. But all you say is good information so I will keep it and do some research. The manual specs say 190 as does the swing arm but I understand what you are saying. This thread was not so much a handling setup question as a what is this? But I think Death and TS have hit on something. I measured the sag and it is 15mm. Far to much. So I will play with the setup and see how that changes it. After I have been to Paeroa this tyre should be stuffed so I will take it off and measure the rim.
I assume from the inside of where the tyre bead?
Thanks R1

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 10:04

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

Try (as ts said) more preload AND more compression damping.Check static sag,should be about 5mm(no rider) or just keep going 'till the squat dissapears.
Stick with the 190.
.

Sag = 15mm. That is I take the weight off the shock and Mrs gixxer 4 ever marks a board. Let the bike sit down and the difference is 15mm. So I should have checked this stuff before posting here. Anyway I will do as you have advised and see what happens. As above I am happy with the way the bike rides but it will be interesting after a bit of time spent on setup. I last set it up 35,000km ago

I will look at the 5mm lift when I take the rear tyre off.

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 10:08

Originally Posted by sugilite

Is your wheel in straight in the swingarm?
The factory alignment marks are not always accurate, if it is a screw and lock nut adjustment, count the threads on the adjuster each side to be sure.

good point but I did check that before I asked. That's what I did when I noted one side wave was deeper than the other.

**R1madness** · 1st February 2006, 13:16

Ahhh now the truth comes out. If its Craigs old bike (and i have no reason to doubt it) then he may have had a 6 inch rim on the rear. It will be stamped on it somewhere MT6.00x17 or 5.50x17 or something like that. If it is a 6.00 then the 190 will be fine. If you cant find the markings then measure them as you described. Up the preload for sure. 25mm with the rider is a good start. You are a bit bigger than the average 750 rider so i would suspect you will need to run less than 5mm static (without the rider) or go for a heavier spring (extra cash but will help). You are headed in the right direction.

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 16:39

Man that's one way to reduce your productivity. Start shagging around with the bike setup in work time.
I have reset the sag. Around 4.8 5.2. it appears not to be an exact science.
Tweaked up the rebound as well.
It feels so different. I will play with it for a while and see what happens. Even if the wave pattern stays the retuning of the suspension has made a big difference. I have a feeling Mrs Gixxer 4 ever will have somthin to say as the shock comes up threw her back.
Set the rebound on the front a click harder as well.
I know this is not the way to sort out what made the pattern but I am sure the bike will feel a heap better now. Raining so I can't go out and play.
Will post here after the weekend.

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 17:04

Originally Posted by R1madness

Ahhh now the truth comes out. If its Craigs old bike (and i have no reason to doubt it) then he may have had a 6 inch rim on the rear. It will be stamped on it somewhere MT6.00x17 or 5.50x17 or something like that. If it is a 6.00 then the 190 will be fine. If you cant find the markings then measure them as you described. Up the preload for sure. 25mm with the rider is a good start. You are a bit bigger than the average 750 rider so i would suspect you will need to run less than 5mm static (without the rider) or go for a heavier spring (extra cash but will help). You are headed in the right direction.

Found this on it J17XMT 6.00. So that's good.
See above for adjustments made today.
Yep it is the one. When it went on the market on TradeMe I asked if it had been raced and Ed, the current owner at that time, had been told it had but had no details. So I got the frame number and stuff and checked it on the reg papers and found Suzuki NZ owned it for the first part of it's life. Then I sent mail to them and asked and Mike Wink from Zuki sent me details on what they knew. Unfortunately Craig dropped it big time at Ruapuna and bent the steering dampener mount and indented the top of the frame on the right hand side. it was recertified and continued on the track till the end of the season. It was then sold and setup for the road.
I found the photographer in Christchurch that did the work for Zuki NZ and wrote to him to get some pic's. He said he had them and would dig them out if I would send some money. Never heard back from him. Which is a shame. I could ask here in the general area cos someone is bound to have been racing at that time and have a shot of it.
Looking forward to getting out and having a ride with it setup like this.

**Two Smoker** · 1st February 2006, 17:37

Bloody remembered last night (ask Chloe hehehe) to up the compression dampening ASWELL... but Death has already added that...

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 1st February 2006, 19:03

Originally Posted by Two Smoker

Bloody remembered last night (ask Chloe hehehe) to up the compression dampening ASWELL... but Death has already added that...

hahaha as we do. Usually at 3.20 in the morning

and then can't get back to sleep.
Thanks for all the help. I am sure this is the answer and it should be great after a bit of playing and tweaking.
It is great to have a place to ask and have people that can answer based on experience.

KB rocks.....

......

**R1madness** · 2nd February 2006, 08:54

Good man. You are now in control. Doing the suspension adjustments will cure the wave pattern. It may take a bit of time to clean it up but keep fiddling.
Mrs GSXR will like the extra confidence in the bike mid corner and 2 up the adjustments will not make too much of a difference for comfort.
Fiddle fiddle dude. It will teach you heaps.