Braided brake lines

[scumdog]

That's news to me, since when were washers a WOF requirement?
Lou

The requirement is: if you have them fitted they have to work - like reversing lights and a whole reft of things I see as "optional"

[pete376403]

The man to talk to is a fella called alex Gee --hes a low volume vehicle certifier --Ie He gets outragous bikes onto the road.
As I understand it there are two problems with braided lines
1) if the lines aren't stamped with a standard or have a letter of standard there is a chance they will fail - We all say -yea mine wont but not all braided lines are alike and there are those that might fail.
2) proven cycle ability.-Noone has done a test to see how well braided wire stands up to constant repeated flexing as in on a bikes brakes.
aircraft replace their brake lines after a certain number of landings.

The braided wire doesn't do anything except protect the actual hose. They would work just the same without any braiding at all

[vifferman]

The braided wire doesn't do anything except protect the actual hose. They would work just the same without any braiding at all

Waddya mean, it doesn't do anything?!? It looks KEWL, and that's a VERY important function!

[merv]

The braided wire doesn't do anything except protect the actual hose. They would work just the same without any braiding at all

The guts is I thought the braiding makes them much stronger so when you pull hard on the brake they aren't as spongy as you get with a plain old rubber (synthetic or whatever) line i.e. the braiding encases the line and stops it expanding so much under pressure.

[pete376403]

The guts is I thought the braiding makes them much stronger so when you pull hard on the brake they aren't as spongy as you get with a plain old rubber (synthetic or whatever) line i.e. the braiding encases the line and stops it expanding so much under pressure.

When the braid is removed from the hose it's much like the shield conductor in a bit of coax wire (but in stainless) and pretty stretchy. I believe the hose itself is a teflon based plastic and super strong, much like the hose used for pneumatics on industrial machinery. My hoses are about to be sacrificed to the little gods at LTSA so I'll cut the braiding off before removing them and see if it makes any difference to the lever travel (new hoses waiting at Boyles - $150 / meter not including banjo ends.

[Coldkiwi]

goodness me! What a mine field. You'd think upgrading your brakes would be easy? Can't see the point in saying 'if it didn't come with braided lines, you can't have them'. Why would LTSA have a beef about a potentially better way of stopping? Sure, make it certifiable but it seems like they're almost discouraging improvements.

[merv]

When the braid is removed from the hose it's much like the shield conductor in a bit of coax wire (but in stainless) and pretty stretchy.

I think you'll find its stretchy (and flexible) in certain directions but when its encasing the line it won't allow stretch outwards because after all it is a strong stainless steel cover a bit like a boa constrictor wrapping itself around.

[FROSTY:Me]

My point is that brakes are such an essential part of a bike that the LTSA
arent going to issue WOF's on brakes that MIGHT be ok.
They need to know for sure that they will work.
The standard lines meet LTSA standards.
All they are really asking is for you to PROVE that the brakes are as good as standard and will stay that way.

[FROSTY:Me]

boing. --interesting rereading so Im bringin it back up

[Quasievil]

Hi there.

I'm new to "Kiwi Biker" (as of right now) and I've just fitted Aerotek-BSR braided stainless steel brake lines to my VTR. Now I've been informed that they may not be road legal, as they don't have crimped-on fittings (they use bolt-on bits). Does anyone know for sure what the regulations are? I've done mutliple Google searches, and I can't find the information pertaining to this. The nearest I've got is something saying that brakes may not have potentially usnfae connections, or vague crapola to that effect.

Err thats spelt mutliple is spelt as Multiple, usnfae is spelt unsafe.
just trying to help

[wkid_one]

Never had a problem putting braideds on either of the two bikes. Both were made to order from Green Lane Speed Shop in Penrose (ie not bought off the shelf - but made by them on the spot). Many many WOF's later and no probs with the bikes brakes at all.

[FROSTY:Me]

unless the lines have a proof of compliance attached (look for FMVSS 106) your insurance compaqny and LTSA won't see your WOF's as valid.
There are a couple of other British and australian standards you could use but the lines made up by Greenlane Speed shop are not certified if the are assembled from components rather than being one piece items.the shop will tell you they are sold for "competition use only" not road use.
You can also get guaranteed lines made by a comapnay in auckland called Alert Engineering , who have an approved process which LTSA recognises.
The WOF which some kindly certifier gave you will probably give him a huge fine and a stand down of up to 6 months loss of work and your insurance company will decline to pay out in the event of a claim.
it doesn't matter if they work or not -they will eventually fail before the expected life of the common original equipment items your machine came with.
XJ Frosty asked me to reply to this ]
Alex Gee
Low Volume Vehicle Certifier to LTSA

[RiderInBlack]

Had a rear flatie that "cut" the standard back brake hose on my 1991VFR750 and got Lambert Brakes And Clutch Ltd in Whg to make a braided hose to replace it (to stop this for happening again). With what you are saying here:

1. Is that braided hose not legal?
2. And how in this sutiation would a unbraided hose be safer?

PS: I no long have that bike, but would like to improve the standard of the brake hoses on my present bike (which are unbraided and probably will not last as life of my 14year old bike).

[Posh Tourer :P]

-they will eventually fail before the expected life of the common original equipment items your machine came with.
XJ Frosty asked me to reply to this ]
Alex Gee
Low Volume Vehicle Certifier to LTSA

What a load of rubbish.
Brake lines, like any other piece of equipment on a bike, are expected to be replaced at some point in the life of the bike. Perhaps in a perfect world the bike would no longer be used after a certain "lifetime" that is built into the bike, but in the real world, some bikes go on forever. If I fit quality hoses (not necessarily those that have bothered to comply to standards) to my bike, they are likely to last longer than the factory hoses, due to me being willing to spend more on quality hoses than the factory was. The bikes are made to a price. This means economising, including not using braided lines. Manufacturers *do not* always have the best gear on the bike. Moreover, it is not only certified work that is the best work. Ok, with uncertified stuff, you take a risk in terms of quality, but there can be some good work done without the piece of beaurocracy that says it ought to be good.

This sounds like a similar line to the MOTs line when using boxer twins. "We will not replace the crash bars as they are designed to last the life of the bike"

[wkid_one]

unless the lines have a proof of compliance attached (look for FMVSS 106) your insurance compaqny and LTSA won't see your WOF's as valid.
There are a couple of other British and australian standards you could use but the lines made up by Greenlane Speed shop are not certified if the are assembled from components rather than being one piece items.the shop will tell you they are sold for "competition use only" not road use.
You can also get guaranteed lines made by a comapnay in auckland called Alert Engineering , who have an approved process which LTSA recognises.
The WOF which some kindly certifier gave you will probably give him a huge fine and a stand down of up to 6 months loss of work and your insurance company will decline to pay out in the event of a claim.
it doesn't matter if they work or not -they will eventually fail before the expected life of the common original equipment items your machine came with.
XJ Frosty asked me to reply to this ]
Alex Gee
Low Volume Vehicle Certifier to LTSA

I gotta think that is a load of bollocks....will fail before the expected life of the original equipment....my arse. Who researched that fact? I have never heard so much dribble in my live.

I specifically asked GSS if they were recognised by the LTSA - to which end they produced the LTSA Accreditation confirming that they were happy with the way they were produced. They produce braided lines for both cars and bikes - road and track.

Besides this point - which numbnuts in the the LTSA decided riding a 20 year old bike with vulcanised old rubber brakes lines are safer than new braided ones?

Sorry - I will run the risk and continue to run braided lines.....