Breakthrough in electric motor technology

**riffer** · 31st March 2004, 22:21

Electric motors that run on 80% less electricity than previous, and produce MORE power than goes into them. Don't believe me? - read it here:

http://www.japan.com/technology/index.php

**k14** · 31st March 2004, 22:38

OMG, I can't believe it. I want more information about it though.

If it can put out more power than is put in, then isn't it perpetual energy?? So with one of these motors, you could power the whole of the world forever?

Would be cool if it is real, but forgive me for being a little skeptical.

**brockhaus** · 1st April 2004, 00:58

Isn't it the first of April now????

cya, Marcus
p.s. I'm a very sceptical electronics engineer.....

**Andrew** · 1st April 2004, 08:46

Bullshit. There is no way in hell that you can get more mechanical power out than electrical power put in.

In electrical motors you always get losses in the wires given off as heat. You get mechanical friection losses on the bearings. When the motor runs up to speed there will also be windage losses.

The conservation of energy says that "Energy can not be created or destroyed, but can be change from one form to another".
Hence this goes against the grain of a very fundamental but powerful physics principle.

Like the man says its April fools day!

**slob** · 1st April 2004, 10:30

My two cents are:

When magnet repels another, it's converting it's potential energy into kinetic energy. What the guy's motor is doing is using this to turn the motor through one phase of the motion, then using an electromagnet (timed really precisely) to move it through another phase of the motion where magnetic lockup would normally occur.

So the difference is that it is using a timed electromagnet to cut down on electricity consumption.

If you were to add up the energy from magnetic repulsion in the perm magnets and the electricity used by the electromagnets it would be equal to the energy output from the motor, and energy lost though inefficiencies.

**k14** · 1st April 2004, 10:38

Well i can see how that would make sense. After consulting my physics books i found that the magnetic potential energy is the dot product of the negative of its dipole moment dotted with the magnetic field strength.

So maybe it isn't a april fools joke.

Although, if it uses earth magnets, then they might need to be replaced after a while. But i can understand how it works, with the electromagnets just turning on and off at the right moment to stop the axel from locking up.

Lets hope its real.

**jrandom** · 1st April 2004, 10:57

Originally Posted by k14

Lets hope its real.

Come on dude, aren't you supposed to be a physics student? Don't they still cover the laws of thermodynamics in the first year papers?

"With the help of magnetic propulsion, it is feasible to attach a generator to the motor and produce more electric power than was put into the device. Minato says that average efficiency on his motors is about 330 percent."

One would hope that the giggling would become uncontrollable by that paragraph.

**k14** · 1st April 2004, 11:27

Originally Posted by jrandom

Come on dude, aren't you supposed to be a physics student? Don't they still cover the laws of thermodynamics in the first year papers?

Lol, i think i missed those lectures

I don't know enough about the subject to believe it or laugh at it. I think we need more info to be able to believe it though.

But it is kinda strange coming out on april fools. Too good to be true i think.

**k14** · 1st April 2004, 11:32

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/mina...etic_motor.php

That was posted over a week ago. So maybe it isn't an april fools joke.

I googled his name and it came up with alot of pages. e.g. http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?...rticle&sid=666

I don't think it is an april fools joke, but we will have to wait and see if it is all it is hyped up to be.

**MikeL** · 1st April 2004, 12:26

Fascinating.
Of course the laws of physics say that it's impossible. And 20 years ago I would have laughed at the idea. Another perpetual motion scam.
But since then I've realized that the scientific establishment is also a gigantic clobbering shop with too much invested in its own smug certainties to allow open minds.
Just remember that in the 16th century the laws of physics required the sun to revolve around the earth.
By the 19th century Newtonian physics had almost fully explained mass, energy and so on. Then there was this new thing called electromagnetic radiation. And then Einstein...
So never say never.
But healthy scepticism is certainly in order.

**Andrew** · 1st April 2004, 13:42

It is too good to be true. If you believe it then you've been sucked in!

**White trash** · 1st April 2004, 16:03

Originally Posted by Andrew

It is too good to be true. If you believe it then you've been sucked in!

Yup! And Bumblebees can't fly and Motocross bikes can't do backflips.

I know absolutly zip on the subject so shall remain open minded. Chris Columbus sure was lucky not to fall off the edge of the world though

**Jackrat** · 1st April 2004, 16:21

Yeah I know a guy whose got one of them in his shed.
Goes well to.

**SPman** · 1st April 2004, 18:53

Sounds about as probable to me as the great cold fusion palaver, a few years back! I cant see that you get more out than you put in, unless you're tunnelling into parallel universe energy sources or something!

**Wonko** · 1st April 2004, 19:37

I spent some time looking at perpetual machines on web sites, and reading the explinations on how they are ment to work, and the phyics of were they fail. Magnets can mask power delivery, but they can't hide it. Something just does not add up with more power out than in.

besides, if you have such a great new way to make power, wouldn't you use it to make something more useful than car air con units?? Make it the power supply for cars, and then really change the world.

But the thing is it's published on the internet, and we all know that the internet doesn't lie to us