KB Krashes!!

**SwanTiger** · 9th March 2006, 10:56

Originally Posted by chickenfunkstar

What do you mean by this? I can think of no circumstance where an organiser can be responsible for someone else's crash.

No where there did I suggest that the Organiser is responsibile for someone else's crash.

What do I mean? I mean that the Organiser has a responsibility to ensure the ride is ORGANISED for all types of riders unless stated OTHERWISE.

Re-read what I wrote. It makes perfect sense.

**enigma51** · 9th March 2006, 11:01

Originally Posted by swantiger

No where there did I suggest that the Organiser is responsibile for someone else's crash.

What do I mean? I mean that the Organiser has a responsibility to ensure the ride is ORGANISED for all types of riders unless stated OTHERWISE.

Re-read what I wrote. It makes perfect sense.

There is no such thing as special roads for only newbies its up too you as a rider to take responsibility for your own actions ie join a ride or not

**chickenfunkstar** · 9th March 2006, 11:06

Originally Posted by swantiger

What do I mean? I mean that the Organiser has a responsibility to ensure the ride is ORGANISED for all types of riders unless stated OTHERWISE.

Why is this important?

The rest of the post talks about people riding too fast / crashing, It didn't appear that the bit about the organisers was refering to something different, hence why I asked what you meant.

**SwanTiger** · 9th March 2006, 11:08

Originally Posted by enigma51

There is no such thing as special roads for only newbies its up too you as a rider to take responsibility for your own actions ie join a ride or not

Well originally the Thursday night ride was open to newbies and guess what it attracted. No offence to QKCHK as I think she does a good job of organising, however the amount of newbies turning up certainly became a bit too much.

Which is a fair argument in my opinion. The organiser has a responsibility. Take the newbie ride as an example, Gremlin and Weasel were responsible for ensuring all the real newbies were looked after, as, it was a newbie ride.

If someone puts newbie in their ride, then, they're going to get newbies, simple. And thats where its their responsibility to look after the newbies.

QHCHK has done the right thing in regards to the Thursday Night ride, but saying experienced/faster riders only. That way she has less responsibility, persey. Make sense? I'm sure it does. I think it does. My decision is final.

**SwanTiger** · 9th March 2006, 11:10

Originally Posted by chickenfunkstar

Why is this important?

The rest of the post talks about people riding too fast / crashing, It didn't appear that the bit about the organisers was refering to something different, hence why I asked what you meant.

This is important because if LooseBruce organised a ride with his mates and invited Newbies along, they'd all be fucked. Thats where its relevent and becomes the responsibility of the organiser to ensure that the ride caters to the type of riders it is inviting. I think its quite important and had a right to share it.

EDIT: Just to elaborate, can you imagine a newbie trying to keep up with LooseBruce? And there are a lot of people who rode bikes ages ago and get back into it, on big bikes 400 - 600cc 'ish and can be classed as newbies again. They go out following a ride thinking "yeah I can keep up" and end up crashing, big time.

**terbang** · 9th March 2006, 11:11

My first KB ride was a coro loop and there were 4 bins and one carpark sprawl. It was also a ride where the organiser (suggester) had a hangover and left half way around because rain appeared on the horizon. There was also no formal briefing apart from what was gleaned from the web postings and nor did I expect one. I don't want to go down the testosterone and attitude and experience thing to anylize why people bin but rather compare KB rides, with associated bins, to other rides I have attended.
I have over the years belonged to a number of clubs (world wide) that organize very good group rides that are very well catered for the type of rider that the club attracts. The problem, as I see it, is that you have comittees and captains and secretarys ETC that can develop hierachal, holier than thou attitudes eventually narrowing down the spectrum of riders attracted or attractive to the club. Or in other words the club does not cater for all types of riders and those that dont fit the mould are not welcome or don't want to be there (not all of us want to join Christian bikers or Dykes on bikes). The good thing is that these club rides do offer is good leadership, guidance and rescource to those like minded people attending events and anyone not sure of what to do will be herded back into line by the structure of the club. KB doesn't follow any sort of structure, religion or creed and I guess that is why it attracts so many from many walks of life or in other words it appeals to a very broad crossection of the motorcycle community in NZ because it uses only the motorcycle as the commonality (it appealed to me). The rides are loosley organised as no-one really owns the ride and any sort of leadership on rides tends to, unoficially fall onto the organizer (suggester). There is No responsibility on KB for the rides as we take that upon ourselves (dont we?). As we can expect we will end up, on any ride, with a broad experience base of riders and abilitys and attitudes with little guidance of leadership. When riding on a Club ride I can stay within the club rules as they have responsibility and its easy, though may not be what I personally want to do, and there are no bins. When on a KB ride I follow my own personal rules riding my own ride whilst being tolerant of others that want do it differently whether it be within or outside of thier ability. Naturally I can expect to witness more bins on a KB ride. That, in my view, is why we have more bins than others.
Take it or leave it this is my personal rule.

The guy in front of me owns the road.
Ride my own ride (easer said than done).
Try to set as good example on the road as I can and be courteous to other users (also easier said).
Be responsible for my own actions.
Enjoy the ride..

**vifferman** · 9th March 2006, 11:16

Originally Posted by Zed

So why are there bins on KB rides?

Perhaps you could've started this off by relating how/why you binned your CBR600 on a KB ride, Zed? :spudwhat:

**SwanTiger** · 9th March 2006, 11:19

Thank you terbang, I agree with your comments and they (in my head) elaborate on what I've been trying to say about the Organiser taking responsibility AND the association of lack of responsibility being in relation to the amount of crashes on Kiwi Biker rides.

Fucken hell, it would be much easier to shoot everyone on here than try to get your point accross.

EDIT: I knew there was a reason I wanted to join the Army, its never been more obvious.

**chickenfunkstar** · 9th March 2006, 11:22

Originally Posted by swantiger

This is important because if LooseBruce organised a ride with his mates and invited Newbies along, they'd all be fucked. Thats where its relevent and becomes the responsibility of the organiser to ensure that the ride caters to the type of riders it is inviting. I think its quite important and had a righ to share it.

Why would they be fucked?

I've ridden with Bruce, Zed, Two smoker,Motoracer and quite a few others who can ride faster than i'll probably ever be able to ride. I've never crashed on those rides because MY pace isn't dictated by people who are far faster than me.

To suggest that my crash was caused by someone else being faster than me is almost laughable.

**TONO** · 9th March 2006, 11:23

Originally Posted by Mental-Trousers

Just over half of the crashes on KB rides that I've been on have been people who are still on Learners/Restricted licenses. A good size chunk of the rest (and the actual reason for a large number of the Learners/Restricted crashes) have been people trying to keep up. The remainder are just bad luck (ie Tony dropping the VStrom on his foot at 5kph).

Time for a coffee break. Might add more when I get back to my desk.

Geez! My ego has been dealt a blow! I told everybody I came of at 105kph,

Have to agree with everybody so far.
Would add that if you ride a bike a lot the chances are very good you will eventually have a bin. (hopefully & with luck it will be a sobering one with not to much damage to you) If you ride a bike faster than the average Joe-blow then I believe your chances are greater(statistics probably agree)in having a really nasty Off.
On the subject of KB rides(i have only been on about a doz) the % of accidents have been possibly to high but none have been what I would call bad which tends to suggest (luck aside) that people may have been travelling a bit quick but were not necessarily dangerously so....if that makes sense.
I think we all have the odd close call eg: over cook a Cnr, hit some loose shit etc that makes us think a bit about what we are doing.
If a close call doesn't make you sit up & think about what happened then indeed that individual is in for a big one.
Just my thoughts people. Stay safe & ride with in your limits.

Question: How do you establish your limits?
Answer: By stretching them just a little at a timenot all at once.
TC

**SwanTiger** · 9th March 2006, 11:24

Originally Posted by chickenfunkstar

Why would they be fucked?

I've ridden with Bruce, Zed, Two smoker,Motoracer and quite a few others who can ride faster than i'll probably ever be able to ride. I've never crashed on those rides because MY pace isn't dictated by people who are far faster than me.

To suggest that my crash was caused by someone else being faster than me is almost laughable.

Well imagine a newbie rider comes along on a big bike and as always, he decides to play 'chase'. At their paces how far down the road do you honestly believe the newbie will get? I say he, because females generally aren't stupid enough to place the chase game beyond their limits.

I never suggested your crash, now you are just being self centered in your argument and its making you look stupid in my eyes.

The suggestion was made in relation to NEWBIES and NEWBIES only, I even elaborated on the type of newbies I was referencing to.

How you came up with the above is beyond me. Are you even reading what is being said?

I think people who organise rides have a responsibility to ensure that all riding styles are catered for unless stated otherwise. I believe most rides can accomodate slow and fast riders, so long as the route and 'pack' are managed effeciently.

Was my original comment in relation to what we are now talking about.

The context of that comment was based off the 'context' of the entire discussion at the time, which leaned towards the bias that the majority of KB cashes were the direct result of newbie riders pushing their limits. The reason for said pushing of limits was a simple fact of 'catch the faster rider'.

Please tell me how this does not relate to the topic of this thread and how it is not applicable. It is my opinion, you are welcome to disagree but I believe you are missing the point.

**Zed** · 9th March 2006, 11:32

Originally Posted by vifferman

Perhaps you could've started this off by relating how/why you binned your CBR600 on a KB ride, Zed? :spudwhat:

Um...Avon sprots/tourer tyres and a 45 degree angle lean don't mix!

**aff-man** · 9th March 2006, 11:35

Originally Posted by swantiger

This is important because if LooseBruce organised a ride with his mates and invited Newbies along, they'd all be fucked. Thats where its relevent and becomes the responsibility of the organiser to ensure that the ride caters to the type of riders it is inviting. I think its quite important and had a right to share it.

EDIT: Just to elaborate, can you imagine a newbie trying to keep up with LooseBruce? And there are a lot of people who rode bikes ages ago and get back into it, on big bikes 400 - 600cc 'ish and can be classed as newbies again. They go out following a ride thinking "yeah I can keep up" and end up crashing, big time.

Ok I think I get what you are getting at. But you really shouldn't single out people...

Sure Bruce is fast but more importantly he is a bloody good guy. So maybe just maybe people want to go for rides with the people not because of thier skill levels but because they are good to have a yarn with. It also stands to reason that maybe the noobies want to be in an environment with more experienced riders to ask questions and improve thier skills.

How will this happen if all they do is ride with other people of a similar skill level with less understanding as those who have ridden more.

Riding with not necesarily faster (but this is usually the case) but more experienced riders will help your riding ability to no end.

If you are going to talk shit and then try back it up or try prove yourself you are probably going to end up in trouble no matter if your on a motorbike, a push bike, in a car,, on a pogo stick (ouch) etc etc etc. So in the end it comes down to the individual to decide if he/ she is up for a certain ride and if he/she can keep thier weener in thier pants.