KB Krashes!!

[justsomeguy]

What are you doing you throttle jockey?? What's the tank size of an Arrh-Arrh?

- anyway, didnt you fill at Whitianga?

I had to live between 12-15k rpm to stay around.

Yup, filled up at Whitianga right to the top with a few drops overflowing through the overflow pipes....... the bike went from that stage to stalling until I switched it to reserve in 182ks...... 14 litre tank.

Now the middle of my rear tyre is starting to peal up after only 7.5K - and it's supposed to be a dual compound........ grrr..... hope to do it again with Zed and all this Sat - be great to see your sexy bike and ugly self again.

[Zed]

So judging by all the responses so far there are quite a number of variables that have possibly attributed to krashes on KB rides:

• Testosterone
• A mixture of different skill levels
• Informal organisation/leadership
• Inexperience/Immaturity
• Mechanical failure
• Lack of knowledge of the roads
• Riding above your comfortable pace
• Road racing
• Bad luck
• etc

Well as for me, I'm not discouraged by krashes on KB rides and I will continue to participate and organise them from time to time as I see fit. There is a perception out there that I have come across talking to people (often non-KBers) that KB rides are dangerous and irresponsible, but I dismiss that as rumour only. Krashes are just a grim reality of motorcycling and can happen in any group situation, not just KB, but we hear about the ones on KB more frequently than anywhere else because of this public forum, and that needs to be remembered.

Keep the rubber side down and the shiney side up KBers!

Zed

[justsomeguy]

So judging by all the responses so far there are quite a number of variables that have possibly attributed to krashes on KB rides:

• Testosterone
• A mixture of different skill levels
• Informal organisation/leadership
• Inexperience/Immaturity
• Mechanical failure
• Lack of knowledge of the roads
• Riding above your comfortable pace
• Road racing
• Bad luck
• etc

Keep the rubber side down and the shiney side up KBers!

Zed

Those would be my top three.

Oh and isn't it Crashes...... or is this another KB patented word??

[Firefight]

surprisingly Some of what gareth says is right, however there are other factors to think about.

I have spent a fair amount of time picking up OPBs off 22, I think about 13 in
the last 18 months and while some of these bins may have been related to
"tryingtokeepupitis), by far the majority of bins had some common denominators, that did not fit that group.

these were...


1) younger riders who normally only ride from home to Tech/varsity and back
home again.

2) most of these bins occurred on the way back after 4-6 hours of riding,
were perhaps fatigue and loss of concentration played a part in the bin.

3) nearly all occurred on corners

4) most were in the lower speed group, with min damage to bike and rider
(but of concern was the fact that they crossed to the centerline of road
before stopping and ran the risk of being hit by oncoming traffic.
In fact only 3 bins were high speed events, and all were by very
experienced riders.

I also have run rides for newer riders, but have favoured low publicity
ie pm or txt to arrange rides, this keeps numbers low and avoids the large crowds of no doubt well meaning helpers, who sometimes end up scaring or intimidating newer riders. On these training days we would also cover topics like rehydration, rest stops, and scene safety in the event of a bin,road side repairs(often with a un planned practical demo) and a bit off first aid.

Just lately there have been a couple of well prepared and run training rides, which seemed to get very good feed back, so good on you Weasel, and the other dude who was invloved in those rides.(sorry can,t think of your name atm)



Another controversial point that has been made was "Declaring the Pace", to me it's one of those you never please everyone things.

On our rides we always advise what the "pace" is going to be,, and yet even that has been the subject of some negative comment.


The reason "Fight Club " was formed was to provide rides for like minded riders, who rode at a similar pace, trusted each other, and enjoyed rides with little delay or fuss that some of the larger group rides often end up getting bogged down with. I guess this is the same sort of thing that Gareth was talking about in the second paragraph of his post.


One of the great things about kb is the fact that we are collectively trying to do someting about rider training, it would seem that we do care about our fellow riders, while we may have differing opinions about the best way to achive this, the important thing is that we are trying.


F/F

[peripheral]

My patchy comments after reading through this thread.

From my perspective, I know 2 people that ride bikes and haven't been on rides with either of them (in part due to location) so the only way I meet other people with an interest in riding bikes is by going on group rides or meeting people out on rides.

Seems like there's lots of mutters around at the moment (maybe because summer is coming to a close) about having to put up with slower riders etc. It'd be a shame to have all the rides turn into either closed rides or newbie rides.

I fall into the new to biking category but I'm not a fresh on the road newbie and can take care of myself if I get lost on a ride etc. At the end of the day I like everyone needs to be responsible for themselves and make up there mind whether they can handle the ride or whether they are too new and need to have someone help them out and ride with them. You can always turn back, as hard as that is to imagine. My first coro loop ride in a group was ok, because I'd done the loop before by myself, and the only part I hadn't done between bombay and miranda was helped out by riders (not the same rider every time) waiting at a couple of corners, which was nice but I would have found the way anyway. Also I am sensible enough to know that there's no way I'm going to keep up with the fast guys and that I should just settle into my own pace and catch up at the next stop. Common sense, something that's becoming less and less apparent in our society.

And you'll always get people pushing themselve trying to keep up with the guy infront, at all levels, that's how we learn isn't it by pushing our limits? They/we need to be sensible about it and listen to ourelves when we start having those moments when trying to keep up, after all we want to ride home don't we?

If we try and lump too much responsibility on the organiser about the outcome of the ride and whether or not there's bins, then no one will want to organise rides for fear of being "sued" or blamed. And remember if we start being too elitest then there'll be no new faces on rides.

$0.02

[MacD]

It's a choice Zed.

I chose to crash, I didn't realise it at the time, but mostly it is a choice.

I agree with CaN on this one. It may not be a conscious choice, but I believe if most people look at their crashes dispassionately they will be able to identify a choice they made that lead to the crash.

The question really is how do we help new riders avoid learning this the hard way?

Riding with a pillion certainly helps remind me that I am making decisions when riding that will affect not only me but also another person.

So I'm not the fastest rider these days, but at least I'm still riding.

[peripheral]

2) most of these bins occurred on the way back after 4-6 hours of riding,
were perhaps fatigue and loss of concentration played a part in the bin.

Interesting, is a very easy thing to do, I often think to myself on the way back from a ride, should I go the interesting route or the nice and relaxed route. Most of the time it's the relaxed route, if I've already had enough riding for the day, I figure there's alway tomorrow to tackle those roads again and often I want to go home and relax.

[terbang]

2) most of these bins occurred on the way back after 4-6 hours of riding,
were perhaps fatigue and loss of concentration played a part in the bin.

An interesting Human factor here that aircrews are staisticly (sp) likely to have an incident on the way home or on the last sector of a days flying. Fatigue is partly to blame however there is also a tendancy to relax or wind down as the end of the journey nears or the "were on the downhill run now" mentality which only compounds the effects of fatigue. Being aware of the problem combats it and, in the past when I flew long haul, I have often made mention of this statistic to other crew members on the last sector of 3 returning from Europe to keep us all focused on the job at hand.
I know that driving a motorbike and a plane are different basic skills but the human factor side of it remains much the same and aviation has spent a lot of money in this area that we as motorcyclists can benefit from.

[buellbabe]

Seems the general concensus is that each rider is responsible for their own ride. However when riding in a group there are so many other factors to consider and IMO theres alot of riders out there who could learn a thing or two about group riding. Aside from the obvious 'ride at ya own pace' you also have to show some courtesy to the bike in front of ya, like don't tailgate just cos you wanna get past, that can irritate and cause the rider in front to possibly go faster than they are comfortable with or take a dodgy line just cos they are feeling pressured. Then there is the fact that many people are reluctant to admit to themselves that they really aren't as good as they think they are. Ye Gads! I have witnessed this SO much during my years of group riding. A rider positions themselves in the fast pack and then ends up obstructing the following bikes cos he/she is riding wide, all over the road, not overtaking etc... This causes immense frustration...
If I am riding with a group of bikes I don't know I'll start out at the back and then gradually work my way forward thru the pack until I reach a pozzy/speed that feels good.
AND there is always the testosterone factor to consider... recently a friend did a KB ride and told me how he chose not to ride recklessy thru the traffic down State #1 and was taunted with "geez yr slow"... I rest my case.

[Drunken Monkey]

...I know that driving a motorbike and a plane are different basic skills but the human factor side of it remains much the same and aviation has spent a lot of money in this area that we as motorcyclists can benefit from.

I think you'll find basic the skills are exactly the same, which is why your information is so true => scanning the sky (or road), identifying landmarks/navigation, identifying hazards, checking instruments.

[bugjuice]

So judging by all the responses so far there are quite a number of variables that have possibly attributed to krashes on KB rides:

• Bad luck
• etc

yay - i vote those two..

[terbang]

I think you'll find basic the skills are exactly the same, which is why your information is so true => scanning the sky (or road), identifying landmarks/navigation, identifying hazards, checking instruments.

But lets face it Modern Bikes like modern airliners or anything rarely fail so the weakest link is the humans that drive them and there are 3 basic skills that we must develop (1) Handling skills (2) Mental skills (3) Self control skills.
I feel that a lot of the discussion on this thread relates to item 3 above..

As a point of interest I have been in Aviation for 27 years and around motorcycling for 31 and I have lost more friends to aviation accidents than motorcycles..! Does this mean I have no friends in the motorcycle world..?

[terbang]

Seems like there's lots of mutters around at the moment (maybe because summer is coming to a close) about having to put up with slower riders etc. It'd be a shame to have all the rides turn into either closed rides or newbie rides.

I couldn't agree more and if we want to have exclusive rides then form an exclusive club like the fight club or litre club but keep KB rides just that for all KBers. Let everyone be responsible for thier own actions with the route briefing ETC making the difference between a smoothe ride for everyone or a disorganized straggle.

[Zed]

...Aside from the obvious 'ride at ya own pace' you also have to show some courtesy to the bike in front of ya, like don't tailgate just cos you wanna get past, that can irritate and cause the rider in front to possibly go faster than they are comfortable with or take a dodgy line just cos they are feeling pressured....

That includes tailgating cars - are you reading this JSG?

[Drunken Monkey]

... if we want to have exclusive rides then form an exclusive club like the fight club or litre club but keep KB rides just that for all KBers. ...

Negative, just look at how many users there are on this site and how many different bikes and walks of life they come from. There's too many people to always have a 'general all riders, all bikes and all speeds welcome rides' all of the time. Have you ever organised one? Ask WhiteTrash about his big Easter ride (60+ impromptu riders showed up). They can be quite daunting for the organiser, who often ends up with the responsiblity/stress of regular head counts and the occasional pick-up call (not fun).
The forum, while attracting all types, is the perfect medium for a small number of geographically friendly, like-minded individuals to organise small rides.

Which raises another point. You know what twists my damn knickers? when you organise a ride for X riders at Y location for Z speeds and some friendless loser on the other side of the country who doesn't even have a bike ends up contributing more posts to the thread than the riders combined.