KB Krashes!!

[vifferman]

Um...Avon sprots/tourer tyres and a 45 degree angle lean don't mix!

Ah!! So that explains the multiple crashes on my VTR and current bike!
I'll have to make sure I don't lean further than 44 degrees till I can afford new tyres.

[SwanTiger]

Ok I think I get what you are getting at. But you really shouldn't single out people...

Sure Bruce is fast but more importantly he is a bloody good guy. So maybe just maybe people want to go for rides with the people not because of thier skill levels but because they are good to have a yarn with.

Yep, fair comment mate.

Loose Bruce is a top example of a fast rider. It helped put weight to my point that if 'said newbie riders' went with him and were the 'said newbie riders to try catch faster riders going past their limits' then a crash is likely. It just puts emphasis on the need for organisers to be careful about the people they attract to rides. And I believe that becomes a responsibility. If you attract newbies, unless you cater to their riding abilities you can expect problems.

I think thats fairly reasonable and a good point of view on why there are so many KB crashes. Terbang put it nicely.

Anyhow this thread is turning to shit. Might carry this on at the pub tonight...

[bugjuice]

yeah, I guess there's another point Aff raises. Some riders are fast. And they often ride with the same group of people all the time.
Sometimes, the newbs or less experienced want to go on those rides to get some tips n stuff.. but quickly find themselves in unfamiliar territory. While it's good to learn from others, ask them first, don't just watch from a distance. And there's often rides (weasle organised a few I think), where newbs and experienced are on the same ride for this reason..

[chickenfunkstar]

Well imagine a newbie rider comes along on a big bike and as always, he decides to play 'chase'. At their paces how far down the road do you honestly believe the newbie will get? I say he, because females generally aren't stupid enough to place the chase game beyond their limits.

...

Please tell me how this does not relate to the topic of this thread and how it is not applicable. It is my opinion, you are welcome to disagree but I believe you are missing the point.

Ok. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're saying that Newbs shouldn't go on rides with faster riders because they will try to keep up. It follows that this situation should be prevented in the first place by not mixing the two groups. Correct?

I agree that if newbs think that they can keep up with the faster riders, they will crash in trying to do so.

I'm suggesting that it is 100% up to the newb what pace they ride. They are the only ones who decide how fast they should ride. If a person is 100% in control of their actions then they must also be 100% responsible for the consequences. If a person allows their confidence to outgrow their wisdom then they must also accept what happens as a result.

I was using myself as an example before because it seemed easier to get my point across, using me as an example. I was speaking hypothetically about my about my crash, i've never actually crashed. I wasn't trying to appear self-centered.

[aff-man]

yeah, I guess there's another point Aff raises. Some riders are fast. And they often ride with the same group of people all the time.
Sometimes, the newbs or less experienced want to go on those rides to get some tips n stuff.. but quickly find themselves in unfamiliar territory. While it's good to learn from others, ask them first, don't just watch from a distance. And there's often rides (weasle organised a few I think), where newbs and experienced are on the same ride for this reason..

And then you get bogans like me who are stuck in the middle....

Swantiger: In my all be it limited experience as I said earlier it hasn't been the newby trying to keep up that has caused the problem it has been the fact that they either
a)misjudged a corner
b)They panic and put on the brakes (making pop up or low side)
or
c)They don't clearly identify hazzads.

I am trying pretty hard but I can't think of someone who binned it trying to keep up. Or more importantly them trying to keep up was not the problem itself but more that in conjunction with the above reasons caused the bin.

I myself am not the fastest around and have on occation tried to keep up with the likes of bruce/TS/MR/Death etc etc. I have also had a few pucker moments in doing so. So no matter who goes on the ride be it a faster or not faster rider there will most probably be someone faster who you will at some stage try and keep up with....

[Big Chim]

I gather that all the coments made in this thread have been made by people who have been involved with Kb for some time and have greater experiance than me on the road. Hence i thought a view from a person new to this whole game could be benifical to maybe what is sort after by the newbies who attend rides. I have been riding for about 6 months.

What i want to get out of going on rides with other KB memebrs is the benefit of there experiance. Its alot of fun meeting and talking with new people but for me the biggest part of the ride is the learning. I have meet a couple of Kber's who I believe know what they are talking about due to there experiance (years on bikes) and more importantly how they ride there bike. I want to be safe on the road and understand cornering techniques and road craft and thats why i have chosen to listen to the poeple i do. This is not only riding with them on KB rides but going for rides when its just you and the person you are learing off because you get the one on one advantage and they can then take the time to teach you (be open to critcal comment on your riding, another way of advanceing your skills) and the realise you are there to learn form them. I also realise that on a KB ride if the person who i have been learning off takes off and does there thing I'm not obligated to keep there pace.

I agree to what is being said about in order for people to push there limits and grow there skill base they need to get together with more experianced riders but how about doing it one on one with and experianced rider when they know that you are taking notes on what they are doing and learning as much as they can from that example. I believe that then this provides a controlled environment to learn (as can be on the road). Awsome job to weasel and Co. that have organised rides also to provide a the newbie rides and providing mentoring.

Hope this all makes sense, theres no shame in being a newbie, we all start somewhere.

[Marmoot]

Crashes, damages and injuries?

I blame it on two factors: gravity and speed.

If there is no gravity and the bikes are stationary with 0 speed, there would not be crashes and carnage.....

[sAsLEX]

Tru dat brutha been there found that out.... dry cleaned the leathers

those things need replacing not cleaning!!

[sAsLEX]

there would not be crashes and carnage.....

especially to helmets

[aff-man]

those things need replacing not cleaning!!

Hey man you havn't seen what it looks like with just the banana-rama under suit on...

Seeeeexxxxxxxxyyyyyy

p.s. my hair could be another reason for KB crashes...... and my avatar

[Marmoot]

especially to helmets

Stay away from that subject, Mister......I just proved once again that Arai saves lives, even when it's already worn out. Ask FF for details


(and, yes I am saving up for a new helmet this time. That one is expired)

[enigma51]

And then you get bogans like me who are stuck in the middle....

Yeah tell me about it there is bogans like myself who is stuck at the back always So for all newbies if you want to follow someone dont follow me i will be behind you

[Cajun]

Okay i am to lazy to read some of these comments.

I but most likley these have said before, newier riders, pushing to harder than they should, People going fast on roads they are not firmliar with. And also some people here 'talk the talk' and try and 'walk the walk' when they can't, and start doing silly things. Some of the more expernise riders, i believe, also do not help by, doing things which they shouldn't, cause the newer rides see this, and in turn try if for themselfs. Or trying to show them things which they should not be learning at that stage of there development

As much people say don't push your own limits, as they saying goes 'monkey see monkey do'

Personally i rarely, if ever ride over 50% of the ability i have the road. You need to be able to call on that ability if things start turning pear shape, where newer riders don't have this ability to call on. But this isn't just newier riders, i know alot of mid 30's year old people, who ride like they are superman, when they are no where close. And due to fact they are older, they believe they are better, many years under the belt etc etc.

You have to ride like not IF, its WHEN, you come off.

One of the other common problems is the weekend or once/twice a monther rider the person who pulls the bike out every couple of weeks and goes for a ride. When spend rest of time in car. and due to this, they take time to get 'warmed' up to riding instead of driving. they take strange lines, and the like.

Personally I only ride with people i know and trust. There are many guys i know are great riders, but they take more risks with there riding. And well we ride in groups to have fun. And well you can't have fun if you are consitly worried, about them doing something risky and putting you both in danger.

---
Sorry if this is gone little off topic, or things already been said.

[idb]

There's a lot of posturing goes on in KB (online) ........ there seems to be a reasonably strong correlation between the people getting in trouble with their mouths (in here), and those getting in trouble on the road.

Now that would be an interesting theory to investigate!!

[SwanTiger]

Ok. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're saying that Newbs shouldn't go on rides with faster riders because they will try to keep up. It follows that this situation should be prevented in the first place by not mixing the two groups. Correct?

Let me tell the tale of my first Kiwi Biker ride which just so happened to be a Coromandel Loop ride.

I had only had the bike for roughly a week and was still getting use to it. A few of the people I rode with had previously spoken to me online and seemed like a good bunch, which they are.

However my level of skill was no comparison at the time and keeping up (especially on a 250cc motorcycle) was one big stressful event, especially when you are on unfamiliar roads in the middle of nowhere.

If it was not for a few of the riders stopping at intersections I would not of made it. Actually, it was lucky I made it back at all as I was (being a fresh newbie) trying to keep up with everyone else, out of desperation not to get lost. At times like that I wish I was a female, blonde and with big tits, then every rider would of ridden at my pace.

I did not enjoy the ride.

The next Coromandel Loop I did was the one somewhat organised by Jon (the American dude) however he was a "newbie" in regards to the route. So I think it was Nauha (spelling?) who took the lead and guided the group. Everyone seemed to stop at intersections and there was a wide variety of riders, the majority all going at their own pace. I enjoyed that ride more than any other ride I've been on so far.

This just illustrates how a poorly organised event can have a profound effect on the newbie rider.

In the first ride I mentioned you can see how lack of organisation prevented me from enjoying the ride. However the kindness of a few meant that I was able to survive the ride. The second ride had people taking responsibility for directing the group of riders and in general everyone was fairly well behaved.

I can't be bothered arguing a point no one seems to comprehend, however I hope the above paints the scenario of how a well organised and a not so well organised event can effect a rider.

So Chicken dude, to answer your question, you are incorrect. If people want to learn then to do so its only logical to ride with people who are better than you. However as I mentioned in another thead, it pays to pick people who are only slightly above your skill level rather than those who are well beyond with a few years experience riding.

Everyone does it at some point. You will get the red mist and try to chase people, eventually you'll make a mistake and crash. This is more common amount newbies than anyone else.

This can be prevented in instances when an organiser invites along newbie riders. They must be prepare to cater to their riding ability by ensuring someone of similiar or slightly more advanced abilities is able to ride with them. I see that as a logical move and the newbie ride Weasel and Gremlin organised is a fine example of how you can bring extremely slow and faster riders togeather and control them AND produce an environment for learning.

Now in saying this, I am in no way suggesting that the rider is void of any responsibility for his or her actions. However an organiser cannot be called an organiser for simply saying "I'm going for a blat down this this and that road, anyone wanna join me?" and then expect people to act in an orderly fashion by way of not crashing or being stupid.