KB Krashes!!

[terbang]

The difference between an organised ride and a disorganised ride is the same as the difference between "Hey guys Im goin for a ride this sat anyone interested" to a well detailed, specified and planned group ride with specific goals. And that raises a good question about what KB rides are all about..?
Yup I know Zed I'm going back on what I have allready snarled at you over in a different forum. Can't even blame it on PMS so sorry I was wrong, gave it some more thought..

[R6_kid:Me]

CaN and FireFight have bought up a few important points, most of which i put under the 'inexperience' category.

CaN said he 'chose' to crash, this wasnt so much due to inexperience, after talking to him about the situation he was either going to continue to take the corner and hit some loose gravel at speed, or wipe off as much speed as possible and hope for the best.
It doesnt take a physicist to see that he made the best decision he could at the time, which unfortunately resulted in a crash, albeit with less damage than the other option.

As Fireflight said, rehydration and frequent stops play a major role in a ride, also the state you are in when you start the ride.

When i crashed my R6 over coromandel the contributing factors were

• Lack of sleep the previous night
• no breakfast
• didnt eat/drink at first stop
• didnt turn back when i didnt feel good
• let testosterone get the better of me in a 'chase' situation
• didnt stop for a break

When it came to the point that was going to fast out of one corner to one that was a much slower corner i paniced(sp) and lock up the front and rear thinking i could stop in time. What i should have done was wipe the speed off and tried to take the corner (looking back i had the experience to do so).

What put me in the situation was the fact that i was showing off, it was my first ride with some good friends that hadnt seen me ride on my new bike so i was trying to prove my self in way, something i wouldnt normally do. The worst thing was that i organise the ride. I put myself in a position where i needed to rush home (to get to work of all things, what the fuck!!!) However pretty much all the decisions i made were affected by my state of situational awareness due to the reasons listed above.

The wierd thing for me is that it was a minor low side at 30kmh that has changed my mind set - being thrown into the path of oncoming traffic will stir you up a fair bit, trust me on this.

I have since decided to minimise the high pace riding i do on the road, not to say i wont do as much, but i wont do it as fast or as close to my limit. Instead i am willing to take a step back and wait for the next trackday to have a good fang on the bike. That way there is an ambo there ready and waiting if i fuck up, people are expecting you to pass them (they know its your responsibility not theirs) and all the traffic is moving in one direction.

I think this thread can offer a lot of good information and feedback on the way we organise our rides around this joint, but i would hate to see it turn negative at all... keep the good ideas coming, this thread is about learning, not burning

[bugjuice]

some good points covered there Gareth. If any of those apply during a ride, slow down or think about giving up. Riding the loop is an intense ride, or any ride like that.. if you're not in the right mind space to start with, you're reducing the chances of a care-free enjoyable ride

[Karma]

There's too many people to always have a 'general all riders, all bikes and all speeds welcome rides' all of the time. Have you ever organised one? Ask WhiteTrash about his big Easter ride (60+ impromptu riders showed up). They can be quite daunting for the organiser, who often ends up with the responsiblity/stress of regular head counts and the occasional pick-up call (not fun).

Well different situation I know, but there was no way we were gonna managed to keep an exact head count with over 40 people running at different speeds on the newbie ride, so instead we break it down into groups.

Each group is responsible for keeping themselves together and knowing if anyone has dropped back / off...

This key skill I call... delegation.

Not always easy in practice obviously, but from personal experience there are always some on the larger rides that will stop to make sure everyone made it back ok, this is obviously a lot easier on the smaller rides, which seems to be what most of the experienced guys are favouring these days... I know I personally have been on a few rides that havn't been posted up, and these rides are a lot easier, you all know each other, and are confident in each others riding that you don't have to keep watching your mirrors to see if they're still there....

[Gremlin]

Just lately there have been a couple of well prepared and run training rides, which seemed to get very good feed back, so good on you Weasel, and the other dude who was invloved in those rides.(sorry can,t think of your name atm)

Me??

As Weasel has said, we have now run 2 big-ish successful rides, and not close to boasting, you need to control the ride a bit. Our rides are for learners, if you are here just for the ride, stay clear of our groups... as it was, the second ride was worse, because loose people (not part of a group) overtook a learner group, and the leader got confused as to who was who. Several other points were learned as well, hopefully those rides will continue to improve.

Part of the reason we started the rides was because how easy it is to die on the roads. Most of us, when learning, fucked up a corner, applied front brake, and ran into the oncoming... get unlucky, and you have a head-on (possibly what happened with Koro). Most of us were lucky, and got away with it. Some don't.

If we can help the learners in any way, then I'm happy to do it (although I can't instruct, I'm basically a learner too). Learners are often scared to get out onto the road to practise, which they need to do. We try to offer a as-practically-safe environment as possible, without removing the real world hazards.

For me, 2 main causes of crashes:
- inattention - how I crashed twice, not paying 100% attention to my riding
- trying to keep up - many newbies try to keep up, when they obviously lack the riding skills to avoid the same problems the experienced riders encounter

I have been called slow, but I don't care. If I thoroughly enjoy myself, and return home the same as I left, then it was a successful ride...

[FROSTY:Me]

I think the most importand advise i was given was ."if it starts to feel out of control.SLOW DOWN Pretty simple really.
From what i've seen a fair few Kb crashes were "an acccident waiting to happen' . If the rider concerned had just backed it all off a bit till they were back in their comfort zone--all would have been good.

[Motu]

I'm with Frosty - if you are riding within your comfort zone there is practicaly no reason to crash,it will be something completely unexpected...and hopefully you will have enough space up your sleeve to master the situation...that's the learning process.Riders comfort zones are all different,and will change with conditions,and bikes etc.

I seldom ride in groups,and find it frustrating because my pace is so different to others.The usual senario is I'll hang back with the last group...come the first straight roads and they fly past me like I'm on a step through,but at the first set of corners they start to trip me up and I despatch them...I may run into the next group and start cutting through them...but about halfway through I say ''stuff this!'' and pull over.Then the tail end Charlie stops to see if something is wrong and I have to get moving and start the process off all over again.If the group spreads out I can ride by myself and at my own pace - so what's the point in riding with others?

In january XTC organised a gravel road ride,he did a good job with maps etc,we all knew where we were going...sorta,and our skills weren't too far apart.On unmarked totaly dangerous roads we kept up a good pace,and no one came to grief - we were still childish enough to pit our skills against each other...but mature enough not to get carried away at the same time.

[idb]

I still think the correlation between big-noting on this forum and bike-rider separation would be worth investigating.

Note that the SI KB members are always humble, respectful and sensible on this site and they don't seem to can?

Hmmmmmmmmm!!!

[Karma]

Well I prefer to ride with a clear bit of road, so I can understand what Motu is saying...

But for me an organised ride is about more than just riding together, it's also the chance of stopping, having a ciggie and talking shit for a bit with some other bikers...

And lets not forget that if you come to greif on a group ride, there's usually someone a minute or two down the road that'll come and pick you up and brush you down...

[beyond]

No matter how old you are or how experienced, the fact should always remain in your mind, that we are all still learning and therefore, in that respect will always be a newbie.

When riding alone, accidents are less likely to occur as you are riding to your own pace for the conditions and Tetesterone is wasted if no one is watching.
Male riders still suffer the age old hunter gatherer affliction, which females are less likely to suffer from.

In the absence of hunting the wild animal and bringing home the kill to bring Kudos to yourself and the tribe, we use fast, powerful machines and see who can ride the fastest and the hardest. Deep down, I sincerely believe if we were all honest, this is the biggest problem. Now the solution is to try and make out you are still riding on your own and to your own abilities.

The biggest cause of group accidents would be a result of normally two things.
1. When leading and riders are behind you, many people speed up as they think they may be riding too slow and don't want to be seen as a "slowey"
They then begin to outride there abilities and do dumb things and make mistakes or ride to hot for a corner.
99% of the time, the people following are doing just that. Not pushing you or they would just pass but are just following as they prefer to not be the front rider.

2. When following, if the front runner is fast and rides hard, again, to impress, those following speed up to keep with "the man". Again, they out ride their abilities and make mistakes and/or run off corners etc.

No matter how fast and how good you are, someone is always better.
There are some awfully fast riders around who ride what many would consider a crap machine, but they can wipe the floor with many modern day sports riders and the opposite is true as well.

The good things about KB is that anyone can come for a ride and in a large group you find people who ride similar to you. By the time you stop for lunch, there might be three or four smaller groups, each riding to their own ability but we can still meet up and talk the talk. If things get too structured, people will just stop organising rides and that would be shame.

[Brett]

The amount of crashes happening to people here is certainly increaasing...or so it seems. Maybe just due to more newbies due to the petrol prices??/ I dunno. Bit of a worry tho.

[Swoop]

An interesting comment in a bikeshop prior to a ride "going on a kiwibiker ride?" "Nope - just a few guys". reply (paraphrased) = "much safer then"

[sAsLEX]

The amount of crashes happening to people here is certainly increaasing...or so it seems. Maybe just due to more newbies due to the petrol prices??/ I dunno. Bit of a worry tho.

its actually due to the eclipse

[justsomeguy]

I think the most importand advise i was given was ."if it starts to feel out of control.SLOW DOWN Pretty simple really.
From what i've seen a fair few Kb crashes were "an acccident waiting to happen' . If the rider concerned had just backed it all off a bit till they were back in their comfort zone--all would have been good.

This may or may not be related to what you posted Frosty. But in my case (and I only know about me - not commenting on anyone else) .....

I still think - "Brake" - when I go in too hot, instead of thinking "Lean more"

I'm pretty good at braking in corners as I usually fark up corners 10 times a minute, but it really slows me down and you know how much that pisses me off, what with me being so slow to begin with ...

Any tips that helped you think lean more instead of brake, back when you were starting out or when you instruct riders, racers?

[The_Dover]

I would like to clear testosterone and the like from any of my crashes. I would like to point out that these were all due to alcohol, drugs and erm, mechnical failure.

I am in no way irresponsible or criminal. It is a disease.