Taranaki farmer aquitted

[cowpoos]

Don't notice too many farmers short of a quid , but.

thats an opinion ain't it?...exactly what I was talking about.....go meet some farmers and ask them.....could be an eye opener for you to find out what alot of them live off!!! dispite what you see them drive,etc

[Winston001]

Don't notice too many farmers short of a quid , but.

Slightly off-topic but I had to respond. Your view is understandable and shared by most of the NZ city population. I'm a townie too but I can tell you that financially, farmers come in all shapes and sizes.

I had to deal with quite a few who were bankrupt and suicidal in the late 1980s. The farming economy runs in long cycles - it can take 20 years just to experience one boom. The past 4 years of good returns is the first multiple period since the 1950 wool boom.

And I've got to laugh. Most of the people I know with holiday homes, boats etc are townies, yet they still look enviously at farmers working 7 days a week.

[Lou Girardin]

Another misleading statement was that ACC has received 50 claims relating to kids on quads.
How many of those quads were farm types, how many were the small 50's?

[GIXser]

This whole business is just so wrong on so many levels.

Let's just look at the facts:

1. Through parental neglect and carelessness a child died.
2. A parent had been consistently taking liberties with the health and safety of their children.

A "not guilty" verdict and no consequences is, in my view, wrong. My preferred outcome would have been for a "guilty" verdict, but with no sentence enforced. I understand the grief, guilt and loss the father may take with him to his grave, but the bottom line is that he still did a bad and unnecessary thing that resulted in the death of his daughter.

He had taken no precautions to ensure her wellbeing and protection -- neither of them was wearing any safety equipment -- and the bike had problems with its brakes and steering.

Quad bikes are dangerous, irrespective of the age of the rider.

A "not guilty" verdict basicly says it's OK if your kids die through avoidable neglect. I, for one, don't agree with this.

Mr HItcher

have you ever done anything that afterwards you thought to yourself<,, Oh my God, i shouldnt have done that--,, failing the previous "have you ever DONE ANYTHING AT ALL???????

[cowpoos]

Another misleading statement was that ACC has received 50 claims relating to kids on quads.
How many of those quads were farm types, how many were the small 50's?

yep....the media....who are ment to be impartial and neuteral....are great like that....brillent at sawying public opinions....they must of learnt that shit off helens government [dictatorship]

[GIXser]

If any of my kids or anyones were killed as a result of my failure to ensure their safety thru poor decision making or misjudgement or whatever, I would plead guilty to any charges bought upon me, I certainly wouldnt say it "was a stupid bloody dumb mistake" as Vanner is quoted Waikato Times March 8
its far more serious than labelling it a mistake, the guy gets no sympathy from me, I do have sympathy for the family and if there are siblings I hope they are being well cared for.

What you are saying is that (quote)"your poor decision or Misjudgement isnt a dumb mistake??, (unquote)--- so what would it be then, "premeditated" perhaps"??

it seems that a lot of the people replying to this thread" have never made any mistakes ---it just so happened that the farmers (dumb)mistake cost him dearly-

[GIXser]

This is a bit too close to home for me.Most of you guys know of baby Bikies antics on his bike and his quad.
On one hand the guy is suffering the ultimate punishment.No jail time,fine or conviction is ever going to override that.
I really feel for him and his familly
On the other hand theres a bunch of other 4 year old kids whos lives might be saved if the guy gets convicted.-The whole put a message out there thing.

To the farmers on here I gotta ask How could anyone let their kids ride without propper gear?
Correct me please if Im wrong--If the lil gal had a helmet and armour on she would have survived.

Hey Frosty"
if you get a conviction for a speeding offence" does that mean you will never ever break the speedlimit again" Probably not i would imagine, convicting a guy for killing his own sibbling through a set off unfortunate circumstances wont stop other "unfortunate circumstances from developing elsewhere..

Ps, Good luck with the racing, im backing ya

[Skyryder]

I can't think of anything that would be harder to live with than causing the death of your own child.

I can Spud; being found guilty of causing the death of your own child. You hit the nail on the head when you referred to the jury's 'sympathy' towards the father. A point I alluded to in my earlier post. A not guilty verdict has told the farmer that he was 'not' responsible for the death of his child. To those that agree with this, the only conclusion that one can draw from this is that the a four year old was. There are no ifs and buts about this. Death was caused either by the actions of the father, or the four year old. Twelve good men and true have decided otherwise...............in the space of not much more that one hour.

My personal view is that the jury failed in their duty to respect the life of the deceased. They got their roles muddled. They were assigned to determine innocence or guilt, instead they saw themselves too punish or not too punish. That's the role of a Judge....................not a jurys.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

it seems that a lot of the people replying to this thread" have never made any mistakes ---it just so happened that the farmers (dumb)mistake cost him dearly-

It's not that a lot of the people replying to this thread" have never made any mistakes ................or even dumb mistakes, it's that of lot people here have never made a mistake that's cost the lives of their children. None of us are perfect. I have two grown girls and when they were young they were dependant on their mother and me among other things for their safety. No matter how vigelant you are, children do have a habit of straying into danger. I can remember once when I was painting house I left the ladder up aginst the gutter to refill a paint pot and when I came back my daughter was calling out from up on the roof, "daddy daddy"................she was only three. No ones perfect Gix and disagreement with the verdict changes nothing.

Skyryder

[hunt]

What you are saying is that (quote)"your poor decision or Misjudgement isnt a dumb mistake??, (unquote)--- so what would it be then, "premeditated" perhaps"??

it seems that a lot of the people replying to this thread" have never made any mistakes ---it just so happened that the farmers (dumb)mistake cost him dearly-

the death of a child is a tragedy not a mistake,a mistake is an action or opinion that is wrong or is not what you intended which in this case seems a bit light considering the consequence, i was actually trying to put across that i would take responsibility, which Vanner does not, By pleading not guilty
or being found not guilty is saying that he isnt responsible, a small kid has no idea of what can happen as a result of their actions, where as an adult you do, hang on my son wants to borrow my gun and some ammo and go to a fancy dress party as a cowboy, should i let him, if he shoots anyone who's responsible, and if i let him would it be a mistake or just totally irresponsible,
I think the latter.

[spudchucka]

Mr HItcher

have you ever done anything that afterwards you thought to yourself<,, Oh my God, i shouldnt have done that--

Most people have experienced moments like that, however the vast majority would not have involved the death of a child.

[spudchucka]

My personal view is that the jury failed in their duty to respect the life of the deceased. They got their roles muddled. They were assigned to determine innocence or guilt, instead they saw themselves too punish or not too punish. That's the role of a Judge....................not a jurys.


Skyryder

The coroners inquest might be interesting in terms of the official cause of death, negligence, stupidity, an accident??

In law the guy was guilty, the jury system however relies on human beings to make judgements based on facts & circumstances, thankfully humans are capable of independant thought and emotions. I don't have a problem with the acquital but i support 100% the decision to take the matter to court.

[Winston001]

The coroners inquest might be interesting in terms of the official cause of death, negligence, stupidity, an accident??

Not really. I can tell you now what the Coroner's finding will be - crushed cerebrum, ruptured aeorta etc caused by a 4wd farm bike rolling onto the deceased while she was in control of it.

The Coroner will note the danger of young children being allowed unsupervised control of such machines and that will be the end of it. What a tragedy.

[Lou Girardin]

yep....the media....who are ment to be impartial and neuteral....are great like that....brillent at sawying public opinions....they must of learnt that shit off helens government [dictatorship]

No it wasn't. It was a statement released by ACC. Why shoot the messenger?

[Pixie]

I was brought up and worked on farms through much of my life. My family had one of the first quads to be available (when everyone else had trikes, now THEY were dangerous).

Farmers take more responsibility for there kids than most people, as they have to do all the things that most parents do and do it in a dangerous environment and run a business thats both mentally and physically taxing at the same time. There isnt a shop just down to road to get nappys, food or a medicine from. Child care, playcentres etc can be a very very long way away. Many farmers have caravans or rooms set up so theres a place to put the kids to play during milking at 5 am.

Farming kids, because they are exposed to dangerous things early on are alot more safer later in life. I can spot an ex farm kid on a worksite, they are the only ones that really know how to look after there own safety, where as most city kids are accidents waiting to bump into other accidents.

I'd say that Mr Vanner had done his best and made a mistake he has to live with. I have no problem with the police but it would have been ACC and OSH pushing them through govt influence that would have had some weighting on this. (you know ACC, they ones that keeping upping our rego costs and through the LTNZ keep those speeding tickets flowing).

A four year old on a quad is much safer than a four year old on a horse, we wouldnt have heard anything about it if it had been a horseriding accident.

This child died while experiencing life,due to a lack of parental supervision
In the city thousands of children will exist into later life,largely experiencing psuedo life delivered via a electronic screen.Once again with little parental supervision.Some will get in a car and just before it collides with a tree,realise that playstation isn't really like real life.