For COPS only

**Winston001** · 12th March 2006, 14:02

Ixion on the other thread made a good counter-argument against prosecution on the basis that farm life has always been dangerous - viz.

IXION: A 4 year old riding a horse would have been "oh, how cute, starting at a young age, eh", not "irresponsible, dangerous".

Had Mr Vanner indeed been Old Farmer Fogey still sticking to horses, and his 4 year old daughter accompanied him on her pony - and was tragically thrown and killed - who would be arguing for manslaughter ? (And bear in mind, I can certainly remember 5 year olds riding horseback to school)

I'll argue that a horse is more dangerous than a quad.

My father certainly remembers children being killed and injured on horses. But they also drowned in ditches and rivers and died of diptheria and scarlet fever.

Life can be dangerous, so it comes down to a matter of judging acceptable risks. Talking to 2 farmers yesterday and they were both appalled at Mr Vanner.

**froggyfrenchman** · 12th March 2006, 15:47

I will second the notion that horses are more dangerous than bikes.

Good on ya for taking that back step GIXser, Very big of you...

**Kickaha** · 12th March 2006, 16:04

Originally Posted by Pixie

The prosecution was not necessary to publicize it.

perhaps it wasn't, but I'd expect the rural community will be a damn sight more careful about who gets to ride what because it went ahead

**ManDownUnder** · 12th March 2006, 16:25

re horses being more dangerous...???

errr -

Which will go faster, thereby impartin more energy to a victim in an accident?
Which has a brain and will avoid danger on it's own behalf (thereby reducing the exposure of that risk to the owner...)
Which will get off you in the event of it rolling on you???

There is no straightforward argument on this one, but to say one is safer than the other is inappropriote - it's highly contingent on the situation...

**jonbuoy** · 12th March 2006, 16:48

Slightly off topic but have you noticed how easily horses get spooked by bikes, I try to clutch in when I see em' (the same for horses in transit) but I did scare a woman her horse and myself the other week coming over a blind crest. I felt pretty bad afterwards, my sisters all ride horses and some people can be right inconsiderate wanks. Takes guts to ride something that can get spooked by a plastic bag on the open road.

**cowpoos** · 12th March 2006, 18:49

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

re horses being more dangerous...???

errr -

Which will go faster, thereby impartin more energy to a victim in an accident?
Which has a brain and will avoid danger on it's own behalf (thereby reducing the exposure of that risk to the owner...)
Which will get off you in the event of it rolling on you???

There is no straightforward argument on this one, but to say one is safer than the other is inappropriote - it's highly contingent on the situation...

grew up with horses bro....your argument don't stick with me...I'ld kick your arse around a farm if you were on a quad and I was on a horse....I'ld say the horse was faster...with out a doubt...I think a four year old kid has a larger brain than a horse....don't you???
and your last point your probally right the horse will get off you...but is weights twice the amount a quad does!!!!

just my 53c

**Aitch** · 12th March 2006, 20:43

Originally Posted by cowpoos

grew up with horses bro....your argument don't stick with me...I'ld kick your arse around a farm if you were on a quad and I was on a horse....I'ld say the horse was faster...with out a doubt...I think a four year old kid has a larger brain than a horse....don't you???
and your last point your probally right the horse will get off you...but is weights twice the amount a quad does!!!!

just my 53c

4 year old might have a bigger brain, but most of it is still mush. I have a 4 yr old and there is no way while my bum points to the ground that I'd let him ride a quad on his own! FFS, they've only just learnt not to piss their pants!!!!!!

**Lou Girardin** · 13th March 2006, 10:58

Originally Posted by WINJA

SOME OF THESE GUYS JUST DONT GET IT LOU, HE DIDNT GET MY POINT AT ALL

It's the NZ disease. Don't think, just rely on soundbites and slogans.

BTW. Are parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids going to be charged if the kids die of the disease?

**ManDownUnder** · 13th March 2006, 13:55

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

BTW. Are parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids going to be charged if the kids die of the disease?

Sounds fair - so long as the medical community can be charged if the kids die from a reaction to the immunisation...

**ManDownUnder** · 13th March 2006, 14:01

Originally Posted by cowpoos

grew up with horses bro....your argument don't stick with me...I'ld kick your arse around a farm if you were on a quad and I was on a horse....I'ld say the horse was faster...with out a doubt...I think a four year old kid has a larger brain than a horse....don't you???
and your last point your probally right the horse will get off you...but is weights twice the amount a quad does!!!!

just my 53c

I hear ya re the speed of a horse around the farm. Been there - I know exactly what you're talking about. But I think that's because they're a far more "capable" vehicle. They can jump, run close to fences, recover from slips etc.

Re the kid vs. a horses brain... I'd say the Horse wins. Not for sheer processing power, but for the ability to stay safe - self preservation. Push a horse along unfamiliar ground toward something dangerous. I'd rather have that 4 year old on a horse if there's danger around than on a quad bike. (assuming the horse is broken in etc).

As for the horse rolling on the kid - yeah, a difficult example. The bastards weigh a ton (and stand on your foot every now and then to let you know it...!). They'll get off you quicker, and would be more likely to not roll on you to start with... but given the choice of having a horse or a quad dropped on me...

**Hitcher** · 13th March 2006, 14:54

Originally Posted by GIXser

Sorry i thought this was a rant and rave forum-- my mistake--

no-one has to be in here, they choose to be in here-- its called freedom of speech-

A right that generally presumes some intellect, rather than some crude simeon attempt at joining words together, or covering even this lack of basic skill with personal abuse, delivered with the slick sophistication of a neanderthal.

**Lou Girardin** · 13th March 2006, 15:00

Well it seems that accidents are no longer accidents, we should be prosecuting for every infraction of the law, of common sense, of hindsight.
Charge mechanics for not securing bolts properly, charge boaties for not making people wear life jackets, charge farmers if their bridges collapse, ad infinitum.
We're going to need a hell of a lot of jails soon.

As for horses, perhaps Christopher Reeves would have had an opinion on their safety. I don't trust anything without accelerator, steering and brakes.

**Deano** · 13th March 2006, 15:07

Originally Posted by Aitch

4 year old might have a bigger brain, but most of it is still mush. I have a 4 yr old and there is no way while my bum points to the ground that I'd let him ride a quad on his own! FFS, they've only just learnt not to piss their pants!!!!!!

I think Poos was referring to brain size, period.

Although, my little sister first rode a PW50 2 weeks prior to her 4th birthday - helmet, gloves, small tyred circuit and under supervision. It was better to let her try it than put up with a tantrum. She was a tomboy and as kids was always trying to do what ever big bro was doing. And she probably stopped pissing her pants a lot earlier than that.

She crashed that day and survived - did more damage when I overswung her on a rocking dragon ride at Avalon Park and put her two top teeth through her bottom lip.