For COPS only

[Merwood]

OMFG!!11oneeleven
CALL TEH CARE POLICE : NINE WHINE WHINE

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..../o---CARE-POLICE----@)
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[spudchucka]

OMFG!!11oneeleven
CALL TEH CARE POLICE : NINE WHINE WHINE

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.....___//_____?___\_____
..../o---CARE-POLICE----@)
.../---( @ )====+===( @ )--/

I'm not about to go and check but I get the feeling that you have posted the same thing 55 times???

[spudchucka]

The short answer to this thread, is that the reason the jury system , with all its manifest faults, has survived for 800 odd years, is because people just don't trust the police or judges. As the Vanner case shows.

I don't agree. The jury system brings a human side into the legal process, thats all. The courts and police have to remove themselves from the emotive aspect and concentrate on the facts. It has nothing to do with trust.

[MisterD]

please dont come back with " i wouldnt have made such a mistake"
dont forget it was a series of unfortunate events that made this happen-- something similar could happen to all of us--anytime

A series of unfortunate events, right, a bloody great quadbike in a shit state of maintenance, with uneven tyre pressures and he lets a 4 year old ride it. I'm quite happy to say I wouldn't have done anything quite so blatantly irresponsible.

[marty]

i guess it's like if your 4 year old wanted to go swimming in a deep pool, they think they can swim, you know they can't really, but you're too busy on the phone to really worry about it too much, but you say oh - ok, then they drown, you're all upset, but you know that you should have had exercised your duty of care more rigidly, but when the cops come round you say - but it's a farm, and kids go swimming all the time, and i thought it would be ok this one time, and, and , and....

once again, a child's life has been minimised by the very people who should care for them the most. new zealanders have an inenviable reputation in the developed world for treating their own children with little respect, be it physically or mentally, and in my opinion, should harm come to a child because of the actions (or lack thereof) of their caregiver, then they should be held to account.

mr vanner should have stepped up to the mark and taken responsibility for his actions. instead, he made excuses for them, and i hope that he regrets his actions on the day his daughter died because of something that he did, and also that he regrets not accepting responsibility for them (HIS actions, not his daughters.) a 4 year old kid has ultimate unquestioning trust in their father, how hard is it to say no? unfortunately from what i've seen though, he considers that it is 'just a part of farm life'.

a Q for gixser: if a person other than the father had been in this situation, should the charges still have been laid?

[SixPackBack]

A series of unfortunate events, right, a bloody great quadbike in a shit state of maintenance, with uneven tyre pressures and he lets a 4 year old ride it. I'm quite happy to say I wouldn't have done anything quite so blatantly irresponsible.

Sometime during your life past/presant or future an irresposible act would have been commited by yourself that could have resulted in death or injury, the fact you own a motorcycle gaurantees it.

[Winston001]

Sometime during your life past/presant or future an irresposible act would have been commited by yourself that could have resulted in death or injury, the fact you own a motorcycle gaurantees it.

Absolutely. No-one here who thinks Vanner was properly charged is also saying they are saints. We've all done things which if they'd gone wrong would result in fatalities. But I suspect rarely with little children.

The point that people are making is that in similar circumstances they'd have stood up and taken the blame. Not pretended that it was an accident, Act of God, bad luck, just life (death) etc. Accepted responsibility.

But not Mr Vanner.

[GIXser]

i guess it's like if your 4 year old wanted to go swimming in a deep pool, they think they can swim, you know they can't really, but you're too busy on the phone to really worry about it too much, but you say oh - ok, then they drown, you're all upset, but you know that you should have had exercised your duty of care more rigidly, but when the cops come round you say - but it's a farm, and kids go swimming all the time, and i thought it would be ok this one time, and, and , and....

once again, a child's life has been minimised by the very people who should care for them the most. new zealanders have an inenviable reputation in the developed world for treating their own children with little respect, be it physically or mentally, and in my opinion, should harm come to a child because of the actions (or lack thereof) of their caregiver, then they should be held to account.

mr vanner should have stepped up to the mark and taken responsibility for his actions. instead, he made excuses for them, and i hope that he regrets his actions on the day his daughter died because of something that he did, and also that he regrets not accepting responsibility for them (HIS actions, not his daughters.) a 4 year old kid has ultimate unquestioning trust in their father, how hard is it to say no? unfortunately from what i've seen though, he considers that it is 'just a part of farm life'.

a Q for gixser: if a person other than the father had been in this situation, should the charges still have been laid?

Hmmm difficult one to answer for several reasons:
1) We can manipulate the scenario untill we are blue in the face /or compare it to something similar. one way or another there are several different answers( i will get to my answer shortly) for instance: what if the girl had been say 15 old enough to have a licence but not strong enough to control a quad(unless she is a weightlifter) say she was a small 15 year old)
or-- what if it was a 15 year old boy will that make a difference maybe 10 years maybe 12-- there are so many scenario's
Like i have said all along, i agree the guy fucked up big time , words cannot explain the extend of his fuck up as far im concernd.
What im saying is that the guy knows he's fucked up, and i believe, he has paid the ultimate price for his mistake, he will never have another good night sleep again "ever" does he deserve to be trialled for manslaughter, i dont believe so, should it have been made public(his mistake) yes i think so-- make people aware.
you cannot compare this to a drunk driver or anything similar, as it was a freak accident" granted this will not happen to most of us in our life time" but i will guarantee this
something of an accident will happen to a relative/friend/partner of least 1 member of this thread and they will be directly involved or be the cause of it it ,may not (and hope not) result in a death, but nevertheless they may be at fault, i guess what im implying is that we all make terrible decisions at times, and consequences will result .willingly or not--sometimes its beyond our immediate thinkin as is the case with the farmer ,it happens to all of us-i wonder what that persons view will be after the event.

my answer, if the girl had been driving the quad with her dads concent previously, then no. however if she hadnt, then yes--

Oh i forgot mr D, i should call you Mr Saint, by the sounds of it you havent, and will never "fuck up" in your life, what if you parked your silly scooter on the side of the road/footpath, and a little girl sat down beside it, a freak gust of wind blows the scooter over and hits her so hard it kills her, was it the stand" that failed ie bad maintenance" or the freak gust of wind, what do you think ,, should you be charged,??, it could happen,
Mr Vanners actions were not premeditated" however describing the above nor were yours.

[N4CR]

I'm not about to go and check but I get the feeling that you have posted the same thing 55 times???

NO IT WAS JUST POSTED IN BOTH POLICE BITCHING THREADS FOR A REASOn.

[Krusti]

Hmmm difficult one to answer for several reasons:
1) We can manipulate the scenario untill we are blue in the face /or compare it to something similar. one way or another there are several different answers( i will get to my answer shortly) for instance: what if the girl had been say 15 old enough to have a licence but not strong enough to control a quad(unless she is a weightlifter) say she was a small 15 year old)
or-- what if it was a 15 year old boy will that make a difference maybe 10 years maybe 12-- there are so many scenario's
Like i have said all along, i agree the guy fucked up big time , words cannot explain the extend of his fuck up as far im concernd.
What im saying is that the guy knows he's fucked up, and i believe, he has paid the ultimate price for his mistake, he will never have another good night sleep again "ever" does he deserve to be trialled for manslaughter, i dont believe so, should it have been made public(his mistake) yes i think so-- make people aware.
you cannot compare this to a drunk driver or anything similar, as it was a freak accident" granted this will not happen to most of us in our life time" but i will guarantee this
something of an accident will happen to a relative/friend/partner of least 1 member of this thread and they will be directly involved or be the cause of it it ,may not (and hope not) result in a death, but nevertheless they may be at fault, i guess what im implying is that we all make terrible decisions at times, and consequences will result .willingly or not--sometimes its beyond our immediate thinkin as is the case with the farmer ,it happens to all of us-i wonder what that persons view will be after the event.

my answer, if the girl had been driving the quad with her dads concent previously, then no. however if she hadnt, then yes--

Oh i forgot mr D, i should call you Mr Saint, by the sounds of it you havent, and will never "fuck up" in your life, what if you parked your silly scooter on the side of the road/footpath, and a little girl sat down beside it, a freak gust of wind blows the scooter over and hits her so hard it kills her, was it the stand" that failed ie bad maintenance" or the freak gust of wind, what do you think ,, should you be charged,??, it could happen,
Mr Vanners actions were not premeditated" however describing the above nor were yours.

Don't forget, he didn't just let the 4 yr old ride through the gate way but from what I understand he let her carry on chasing the mob of calves out of the paddock. If you have ever done this you will know it's not a simple task. Calves do not like being chased.

If he had said, "yes sweety just go through the gate while daddy is on the phone" well maybe I may allmost agree with you. Allthough it's not something I would have done.

But if he in fact got her to continue chasing the calves out of arms reach from him then yes he should be charged. RECKLESS

[scumdog]

What im saying is that the guy knows he's fucked up, and i believe, he has paid the ultimate price for his mistake, he will never have another good night sleep again "ever" does he deserve to be trialled for manslaughter, i dont believe so, should it have been made public(his mistake) yes i think so-- make people aware.

So at what point in any tragic 'fuck up' does it change from 'hes paid the ultimate price for his mistake' and he shouldn't be prosecuted to "fuck him, try him, he caused the death of some innocent person, make him pay'

Where do you draw the line?
Surely a hell of a lot of people that cause a death of an innocent person 'know they fucked up' and 'never have a good nights sleep again' and 'know they fucked up', do you believe ALL that fit this catagory should never be charged???
If not ALL then how do you decide??

[GIXser]

So at what point in any tragic 'fuck up' does it change from 'hes paid the ultimate price for his mistake' and he shouldn't be prosecuted to "fuck him, try him, he caused the death of some innocent person, make him pay'

Where do you draw the line?
Surely a hell of a lot of people that cause a death of an innocent person 'know they fucked up' and 'never have a good nights sleep again' and 'know they fucked up', do you believe ALL that fit this catagory should never be charged???
If not ALL then how do you decide??

i agree its a marginal decision , but i feel he shouldnt have been prosecuted turns out im right-- as the jury didnt think so either,,, (is this thread ever gonna end--)

[Limb]

................................................

[Lou Girardin]

A 1 year old kid was run over and killed in their driveway by his father last
weekend.
It's clearly careless causing death.
Should the father be charged?

[Krusti]

Send me the file and I'll see.....