gearing calculations--a lil brain teaser.

[FROSTY:Me]

this is an exersize only --there are always going to be limitatations to every senario.
Doogal and I had been through the exersize for black ice. calculating gearing up and down and the effect on how it punches out of corners etc.

[TwoSeven]

Well here is a model I created - not sure if its accurate - so take it with a pinch of salt. I'm trying to show the affect on a machine from changing the gears (final drive gearing).

14/45: 66(2.44) - 98(1.64) - 124(1.30) - 157(1.03) - 178(0.91) - 193(0.84)
14/46: 64(2.50) - 96(1.68) - 121(1.33) - 153(1.05) - 174(0.93) - 189(0.85)
14/47: 63(2.55) - 94(1.71) - 119(1.36) - 150(1.08) - 170(0.95) - 185(0.87)

15/45: 70(2.28) - 105(1.53) - 133(1.21) - 168(0.96) - 191(0.85) - 207(.78)
15/46: 69(2.33) - 103(1.57) - 130(1.24) - 164(0.98) - 187(0.86) - 202(.80)
15/47: 67(2.38) - 101(1.60) - 127(1.27) - 161(1.00) - 183(0.88) - 198(.82)

16/45: 75(2.14) - 112(1.44) - 142(1.14) - 179(0.90) - 204(0.79) - 221(.73)
16/46: 73(2.19) - 110(1.47) - 139(1.16) - 175(0.92) - 199(0.81) - 216(.75)
16/47: 72(2.23) - 107(1.50) - 136(1.19) - 171(0.94) - 195(0.83) - 211(.76)

The first pair on numbers is the gear ratio eg. 16/45
The rest of the numbers are the speed km.hr(driving force kN) in each gear

I think a key thing to remember is that the driving force (at the rear wheel) determines the rate of acceleration of the bike. In 1st gear, there is not much speed but the bike will accelerate up to that quickly. In 6th gear, there is heaps of possible speed, but the bike would take ages to accelerate to that speed.

The pattern seems to indicate to me that the front sprocket determines the initial top speed in each gear. The rear sprocket is reducing that speed, but giving better acceleration instead (so the trade off). In effect as I see it, the faster one goes, the slower the acceleration will be.

I think while some of the numbers look impressive, there is a point in that table where the bike will wheelie chronically, and/or the rear wheel will just slip too much. That would mean the rider shutting the throttle which reduced both max possible speed and acceleration.

One day I shall get off my ass and validate the model on the dyno and see if I have done the math correctly. Until then I take it as a wild theoretical guess

[imdying]

So what sort of gearing would an early CBR900 require to get to 215mph?

[TwoSeven]

I think standard sizes for sprockets on a 900Fn (92) were 16/42. I couldnt find the internal engine sprocket sizes (I need driver/driven from primary thru to 6th), so I used the 600Fn (92) ratios (its almost the same engine).

I dont think the stock bike would do it - from memory I think that the sprockets wont fit and/or allow a workable chain run angle. But in theory if the peak power was moved up the rev range to 14k rpm instead of 10krpm, then it might be possible to be able to use a 17/40 sprocket combo with roughly 0.94kN in 6th - at a very very rough guess.

Edit: I suspect that one would need to calculate the dynamic pressure of air against the machine and subtract that force form the one given above. If the result is negative, then I think that the machine wouldnt have enough power to reach the speed (likely a stock cbr900 wont be able to). So I figure that one would need to boost the power the machine is generating until the driving force is greater than they dynamic pressure pushing against it. Then I suspect a trip to the bonny salt flats and lay flat on the tank at full throttle and wait a heck of a long time for the bike to accelerate to the desired speed.

You can do the math for that

[onearmedbandit]

Huh? What bike are you talking about Mr Watson?

[Brian d marge]

Huh? What bike are you talking about Mr Watson?

Cbr900 I assume

But 27 is on the right track, If you are setting up from scratch , take a photo of the front of the bike draw lots of squares over it estimate the frontal area. This will give you the force pushing against the bike wind pressure or what ever,
Work out the gearing and the force in each gear just like he has done. If you have a dyno chart you can find estimate the optimum shift points.

I would look at the track figure out where I am going to make the most time and gear accordingly ( I not sure about you road racing fellas but I would be maxed out about 3/4 down the back straight assuming that gearing combo doesnt hurt the rest of the track , ie losing drive out of the rest of the corners. )

Shes a bit of number crunching, and changes for the conditions ( well it does in MX , if you run low big rears in wet clay you just spin up out of the corners but then you have problems getting the punch for the jump, )

At the end of the day I will estimate it using, me pen and paper Ala 27, then slap on what I think is best and test.
Stephen

[cowpoos]

if you run low big rears in wet clay you just spin up out of the corners but then you have problems getting the punch for the jump, )

its a bitch you can't short shift on strokers eh!

[Brian d marge]

its a bitch you can't short shift on strokers eh!

Dont rub it in ,,,, Yup the fours just dig holes and launch ...

Stephen

I still prefer to get things done in 2 strokes rather than 4

[cowpoos]

I still prefer to get things done in 2 strokes rather than 4

I bet your wife doesn't agree with that theory?

[motobob]

Remembering back to my cycling days - by multiplying the number of teeth on the front sprocket by the diameter of the rear tyre (rolling diameter) then divide that by the number of teeth on the rear sprocket will give you the distance covered by the bike per revolution of the front sprocket. Hence by knowing the final drive ratio of the gearbox in any gear the top speed of any gear can be calculated at redline. How good is my memory?

And I just used the chart on the back of the rule book they sent each year

[Brian d marge]

I bet your wife doesn't agree with that theory?

I ll direct your attention to the * I * at the begining of the sentence.

Stephen