Spherion IT Courses.

[fritter]

I definitely agree Spherion is a good way to get in the door fast. I don't think they are the best by any stretch of the imagination, but they give you what you need, and that's a piece of paper that shows you can learn stuff.

Certifications are pretty much there to impress HR people and managers, not actual IT staff.

If you just want the certs like RHCE, MSCE, A+ etc (rather than a "cert prog. tech.", or a "diploma in bus. programming"), go buy a book on the subject, and fiddle with the particular system on a pc (more than one preferably) at home. Much cheaper than a course and to be honest, you'd probably learn more than what Spherion will teach you...

Although unless you already know some people in the industry (your best bet), an MCSE etc won't look that good (if you have a cert like this and no experience, it tends to lose a lot of credibility - read "paper" MCSE etc), where a Spherion cert/diploma is a good start for someone entering the IT market, because it covers quite a wide range of IT areas. Once you've got a year or two under your belt, THEN the specialised industry certs start having some sway...

My 2c anyway. Good luck anyway

[fpsware]

Hi all,
Could those who are already involved in IT please give me some opinion about Spherion as a training provider.

I like the sound of one of their diploma courses but don't want to plump $12,000 to find it is a sh@$ course.

I am interested in a Diploma of information technology (network engineering). All the usual MS, Redhat , and Comp TIA.

Being someone who has worked in the IT industry for nearly 15 year, and more relavent to this thread, someone who employs IT staff. I personally would not hire a Spherion / Polytech / other tertiary ed student as a technician. Maybe as an office run around or parttime when the workload gets extreamely heavy. I don't believe they have the industry skills to perform the jobs required in todays real world corporate computing.

I possibly have a different point of view than others because I work in the corporate IT market, maybe if I worked the home / mum dad market I might think differently, but I know of too many IT companies who will not hire one of these students until they have industry expierence. Its a real catch 22.

[fritter]

I personally would not hire a Spherion / Polytech / other tertiary ed student as a technician.....
I don't believe they have the industry skills to perform the jobs required in todays real world corporate computing....

If you are talking about an actual technician role (systems engineer or network architect for example) sure, I would agree. But we are talking about an entry level position.

I possibly have a different point of view than others because I work in the corporate IT market, maybe if I worked the home / mum dad market I might think differently.

I have no idea how the home/mum/dad market works (fpsware are you talking about the Dick Smith or PC Shop kind of thing here? A PC webstore maybe? Or are you talking about an actual IT company - maybe a small programming house?), but even there you wouldn't expect to start in a highly technical role - if one even existed in that company.

The corporate IT market has entry level positions too...

... I know of too many IT companies who will not hire one of these students until they have industry expierence. Its a real catch 22.

Agree, the easiest way around this is through networking (people, not pc's ).


Anyway, normally you would come out of Spherion looking for an entry level helpdesk role, or something along those lines (junior programmer etc). You'd be doing pretty well to go straight to a technician (that is a very broad term though)role with nothing but a certificate... again, this is where experience counts.

There are plenty of large corporates out there who are happy to hire entry level guys, and have been doing so for years. The obvious point here is that the pay is entry level too - although I know a few who started on fairly decent rates, they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Not an issue, because as long as you have some drive, you'll move up fast.

I always looked at the whole certification/cv thing as a chance to get an interview. That's where you have to show that you are a worthy addition to the company hiring you etc...

Now don't get me wrong here - I'm not trying to defend Spherion - personally I was not at all impressed by them (CPTG when I was there), and their reputation hasn't improved any, but they and all the companies like them are still the easiest way to get started if you don't know someone in the industry (and in a position to hire) already.

Totally agree with matthewt below anyway...

[Big Dog]

Being someone who has worked in the IT industry for nearly 15 year, and more relavent to this thread, someone who employs IT staff. I personally would not hire a Spherion / Polytech / other tertiary ed student as a technician. Maybe as an office run around or parttime when the workload gets extreamely heavy. I don't believe they have the industry skills to perform the jobs required in todays real world corporate computing.

I make really good coffee

[Drunken Monkey]

"I.T." (hate that term - doesn't mean anything) is a pretty broad category. Are you interested in financial software consultation? Programming? Project/Team Management? Or, heaven forbid, Network Engineering?

There are LOTS of people trying to jump on the IT bandwagon at the moment...hearing more and more stories of double degreed, double certs having trouble finding hell-desk roles... Not that I'm trying to spout doom'n'gloom - I run my own network 'engineering' (hate that term too - I think it demeans real engineers) business, and contract out work as I see fit. My certifcation expired years ago and I've never bothered to renew, and my degree definately isn't in computers.

You might find it more effective to split your roles - this will also give you a chance to back out if you don't like where you're headed. ie you have a transport background, so maybe work in the 'back office' area of a truck leasing firm or something, in a role that's very hands on with their financial or operating computer systems. Tell them you've got an interest in computers and try and get them to nominate you as the 'contact' for their IT contractors. Get as much exposure with these people as you can, and try and learn everything they do.
Theses are the people I have the most contact with - they make the PC help requests to me directly. It's their role to have an above average understanding of computer systems so they know what can be assigned to the code monkeys, what needs to go to the screw-driver-heads.
From this role, you can either:
1. learn more about the financial systems, reporting writing and coding = you can move into software from here...
2. learn more about the PCs themeselves, how to map drives, manage active directory, etc... = you can move into networking from here.

Sorry it's wordy, but I hope this helps. I don't want to see someone flitter away 10K on something to help them change their career then end up hitting a brick wall...

[Drunken Monkey]

Bugger that, I obviously failed comprehension at primary school - I see now you said you were interested in being a network engineer. Don't answer my rhetorics!
That doesn't change the rest of my dribble...

[Big Dog]

Bugger that, I obviously failed comprehension at primary school - I see now you said you were interested in being a network engineer. Don't answer my rhetorics!
That doesn't change the rest of my dribble...

R U Hiring?

[Drunken Monkey]

Well yes and no. Unfortunately for you I already have an intermediate technician who is taking up as much of my time as a junior sometimes. I've only got completely nasty Exchange server work that needs to be taken over by an exchange expert at the moment...

[Dr Bob]

From an educational point of view, I see candidates with reams of certificates from private providers, all too often they are specifically about a technology or a language. Whatever course you do, make sure that it is relevant to staircasing - what can you do after this course. In the IT industry it is not about learning the fundementals and then spending your life working, unfortuneately it is about continuual and lifelong education.

You want to do a certificate that will credit or lead into to a diploma, a diploma that will allow you to easily transition into a degree, and a degree that will mean something when you want to do you masters or mba in 15 years time.

A quick fix may get you into the door, but I am faced with many people who hit a ceiling because they don't have an undergraduate qualification, or a postgrad qual, and it is often the case they have to go back over what they have already done because they didn't formalise the learning with something that was transferable.

You said that you didn't mind a drop in salary in the short term, if you do the wrong qualification that drop will be permenant. If you want a long term solution look for the future value of the qualification.

[fritter]

That is why (even though I hate to give them any credit) the Interim/Spherion/CPTG/Whatever they call themselves next was a pretty decent option to get you in the door of a helpdesk if you have no previous experience (or know noone, or have no certs etc).

The Spherion courses basically prove that you can pick things up quickly, and that is quite an important thing...

As I have said, the best bet (and hardest) is to know someone who is willing to give you a chance to prove you are competent.

Then you can specialize once you find the area you like (Networks for you?). Note there is a difference though between 'systems' engineers (microsoft/linux etc) who work with pc/server operating systems and hardware, and 'network' engineers (cisco/juniper etc) who work with routers/switches operating systems and hardware. Quite often people seem to mix the two around (which is fine when the 'engineer' in question knows both )

Build yourself a pc or two then have a play before you do any courses - you'll learn far more that way, then you can breeze through a course like the Spherion one...

Good luck anyway

[Big Dog]

(Networks for you?).

I think so... Hardware fascinates me (standalone), software is just mildly interesting (it is the outcome I give a hoot about with software). I just like pulling things that don't work apart, and love putting themn back together functional. Especially when I don't know what it was or how it worked before I started.

[fritter]

I think so... Hardware fascinates me (standalone), software is just mildly interesting (it is the outcome I give a hoot about with software). I just like pulling things that don't work apart, and love putting themn back together functional. Especially when I don't know what it was or how it worked before I started.

If it's just hardware you are interested in, then you might want to try and get your foot in the door of any pc shop that builds systems (or at least repairs them). Some helpdesks do this (ours does) too. Normally you would have fairly decent knowledge of hardware before you move into network or systems stuff too. The reason getting into a helpdesk rather than a shop is better (take whatever you can of course!) is that you can move into systems/networks from the helpdesk without too much hassle. Much easier to see which one you lean towards that way as well.

If you like hardware, definitely get yourself a couple of pc's to play with at home. It sounds like this would be your thing. I'm sure you can get yourself a copy of a few MS operating systems to experiment with too... Mess around for a while and you'll be building pc's for yourself and your mates in no time. WARNING: Once your family and friends know you are competent at this kind of thing, you are likely to be constantly asked to do things for them. It's even worse than being a tradesman

If you want to fiddle with any networking stuff, but can't get your hands on a proper router, you can fiddle with linux or something like freesco http://www.freesco.org/ ... you can run these on any old crappy pc (preferably with a few network cards in them), and get a better idea of how it works. It's not too interesting until you can play with a larger network to be honest though. I'd play with the pc's and pc/server operating systems for a while before bothering with the networking stuff if I were you anyway. Linux can be a good bridge between the two though, since it does both sides pretty well.

There are stacks of web sites that can help you with all this stuff if you just want to learn it and aren't too worried about that stupid piece of paper. Let me know if you can't find any decent ones and I'll see if I can dig up a few for you.

[avgas]

$12K, nah stuf it - go get a degree somewhere for that price from an international based firm

[MOTOXXX]

haha
ive got an interview with one of the tutors at the wellington one on monday.
they quoted me $7.5k for the diploma in systems technology and 9.5k for the diploma in information tech (network engeneering)
there qualifications are interchangable with polytechs like whiterea etc.

from what ive heard the networking one is quite difficult and its not easy to throw yourself into that course strait away.

[crazyxr250rider]

Please don't vote unless you are in or have been in IT.

Too late but honestly $12000
become an aprentice if you REALY want to do I.T.
i shure as hell dont.