oil additives,do any work?

[magnum]

curious to know what peoples experiences with oil additives have been like.have just put in some silicoil into my bike[supposed to run the engine cooler and eliminate moisture,and can add hp]any racers/mechanics out there recommend any?or which ones are a waste of time/money.thanx.go green.

[wkid_one]

My thought is that the bike manu invested millions of dollars of R&D to make sure the bike runs well on oil - I tend to follow their recommendation rather than trying to improve a working recipe.

[Jackrat]

Silicoil and Militec 1 are proven performers.
Keep well away from anything with Teflon in it as teflon will clog oil ways and filters.I use militec in all my engines,Thats three diesals and two petrol engines.On a dyno militec will show around three or four HP improvement.
On my bike I noticed an immediate improvement in my clutch action and gear shifting.It also runs noticably cooler.A lot of people knock these addatives but I worked in the steel industry for 14yrs and we did exstensive testing on most of them and both silicoil and Militec do work and work well.Teflon on the other hand failed most of our testing badly.The two to keep away from are Slick 50 and Motor up,Both of these will ruin a wet clutch.For detailed dyno results useing Militec contact AMPs in Auckland,They use it in their race bikes and recommed it to their customers.
Cheers.

[Motu]

I don't go for stuff in a bottle - use quality oil and change it often.

There is only one I use - Pro Ma,some lead/copper crap,no reason on earth why it should work,but it does - on noisy hydraulic lifters.Have tried every flush/aditive/oil,but put this stuff in and the tap,tap noise is gone.Hate to use it,but I do.

Working on industrial equipment we used to use these things,this stuff always fails from some sort of lubrication failure,all these stringy goopy additives transfer lubricant along gear trains,stay on sliding surfaces etc - everything has it's use - but as Jack says...never put teflon into an engine - read those labels.Moly,graphite,almost any friction modifyer is not to go near your clutch plates.

[pete376403]

I'm with Wikid 1 on this. If Shell (castrol, BP, Mobil, etc) work out the formulation down to the nth degree, who am I to dump an unmeasured quantity of an unspecified product into the mix and expect it to work better. Besides, if the additives were that good they would put them in from the start and charge more.
The right amount of oil, changed regularly, is probably the best thing.
IMHO of course

[Posh Tourer :P]

Motorcycle companies dont work for the best possible outcome, they go for the best compromise eg performance vs longevity, performance vs cost etc etc. So you need to know what you are doing (as evidenced by posts from JR and motu) when you alter things, but you can do it.

[DEATH_INC.]

Silicoil and Militec 1 are proven performers.
Keep well away from anything with Teflon in it as teflon will clog oil ways and filters.I use militec in all my engines,Thats three diesals and two petrol engines.On a dyno militec will show around three or four HP improvement.
On my bike I noticed an immediate improvement in my clutch action and gear shifting.It also runs noticably cooler.A lot of people knock these addatives but I worked in the steel industry for 14yrs and we did exstensive testing on most of them and both silicoil and Militec do work and work well.Teflon on the other hand failed most of our testing badly.The two to keep away from are Slick 50 and Motor up,Both of these will ruin a wet clutch.For detailed dyno results useing Militec contact AMPs in Auckland,They use it in their race bikes and recommed it to their customers.
Cheers.

I've used Slick50 in the past with no problems.No clutch slippage either.
X1r works ok as does silicoil.
The reason oil companys don't use these additives is cost,I mean whose gonna pay $200 for 4 litres of oil.......

[Jackrat]

I've used Slick50 in the past with no problems.No clutch slippage either.
X1r works ok as does silicoil.
The reason oil companys don't use these additives is cost,I mean whose gonna pay $200 for 4 litres of oil.......

You have a good point about the cost thing.
Talking with a castrol rep',Even he says the only real diff' between the many
non synthitic oils are the additives they put in.

[Hitcher]

Oil additives?? Homoeopathy for engines!

Why would major oil companies invest squillions developing high-performance lubricants that could then be "improved" by adding something that Cletus, Jim-Bob or some other mullet-head had thrown together with their home chemistry set?

[Motu]

If the oil companies products are so damn good,then why do they produce so many different oils? each oil has it's use and additive package - if they can play around with the base product you can to.I just buy the best oil (Silkolene Pro4 ) there is no need for anything else to add to it.

[laRIKin]

A guy I meet a few years ago, works on fishing boats.
They, the company got sick and tired of all the oil additive
reps coming around, telling them that this would make the engines
last longer, etc.
So they did their own testing, like the one you may have seen on TV.
A spinning bit of metal and another bit with a torque wrench to measure
the load.
Well the testing was very eye opening to them.
Some of the more trusted brand were to say the least were crap.
That was even when run at 100%.
To them and remember are no DSIR and did not think that they were.
Found that only one they tested was of any good to them. (that they could tell)
Now this is no good to most of you, as you will have a wet clutch.
And I'm NOT saying that it's the best or it's the only one thats works.
But I do use it (when I remember) in my old Guzzi's as they have a dry
clutch, and you do not have to use it every time.
And I have had no problems with it.
But I have hear that one guy used it in a old tried motor and it started to
burn alot more oil after useing it. It's said that it cleaned out the motor to
good and it lost it's built up gunk that was sealing it. Their is better ways of
say that, but I sure that you under stand what I mean.
Before I say what it is, the Guzzi manuals always say to add Molykote to the
rear bevel box (diff), so I think that there is something the fine tuning the oil
to your needs. And some will and some do not work.
The one I use, for better or worst is Bi-Tron with good old dino oil.

These are some of the million dollar questions.

Is every thing made to be at it's best?
Can nothing be made better?
Are their people trying to make money by making things better?
Are their people trying to make money by selling things that don't work and
you don't need?
Are oil treads never ending?

With out long inderpendent testing I don't think we will ever know.
Let the force be with you, and choice wisely.
Thats all I have to say as I'm not an expert, and they can not agree.

[pete376403]

You have a good point about the cost thing.
Talking with a castrol rep',Even he says the only real diff' between the many
non synthitic oils are the additives they put in.

Agreed but I reckon Castrol (etc) measure really carefully what they're putting in, rather that a vague "1 bottle with each oil change".

Yonks ago Dirt Bike magazine tested dozens of different oils in a two stroke (Yamaha DT1) using pre-mix rather than the autolube. They were testing for the best power while checking for piston and ring wear. They used a new piston and rings for each different oil (things must have been cheaper in those days)
The oil that gave the highest power on a dyno, while giving the least wear was good ol' Castrol R40. That lovely smelling, crank gumming, castor bean based, non-additive, liquid gold.

[scroter]

hey Marvin the marshin, throw that stuff out and buy a Suzuki you know its the best. Or maybe you couldnt handle it what about a nice sedate Honda. ha ha.

[Motu]

The good old Timken test - I've seen that one dozens of times,and each time every product except the one the Rep was working for today was crap.I almost bought one a while ago just to do my own tests and figure out how they rigged it.Doesn't matter - that test has been proved to be crap as far as engine conditions go....but yes,as a loading test as you see it,it works.

Bi Tron,nothing to say - but the demo we had was very interesting and enlightening.He came with a bit of a lab - would drop acid into oil and heat it...it would then turn black,but of course with the magic Bi Tron it didn't.Now it's been proved that 90% of engine wear is caused by acids,we change our oil not because it's worn out and dirty - it doesn't wear out,and our filter takes out the dirt...we change it to get rid of the acids - black oil is not so much full of dirt,but overheated acids.Hhhhhmmmm,kinda interesting that one.

Castor oil? yeah,smells great and damn near the best oil you can get.Now it's synthetic all the old problems should be gone.Hey,bio degradable too! Uh,so is the Silkolene I use,it's ester based and will degrade in time(not in my bike I hope!) One of the toughest places for oil is in a worm drive diff on a heavy truck,just 30 weight castor oil is all you need,no fancy EP140,just the same stuff as a speedway bike,tuff stuff.

[pete376403]

When I first started riding speedway, the JAP I bought came with a 4 gallon tim of R40, so thats what I used. The crank still seized at least once. Then came a 2 valve Jawa, and a 4 valve Weslake. Both used R40 and both blew up. Finally a 4 valve Jawa. By this time R40 was really expensive so I started using a Shell equivalent Super Heavy, which was also a vege based oil but possible not the first pressing ("extra virgin") and a bit cheaper. Finally I said to hell with it, rebuilt the motor cleaning all the old vege residues out and started using Rimula X 50, a mineral based diesel monograde oil. Motor still went well, the crank lasted the rest of the season, and a lot cheaper to buy. didn't have the smell though

I worked once on a Peugeot 404 (?) with a worm diff. Castor oil was the requirement there, too.