Nicholas rape trial outcome discussion

**terbang** · 3rd April 2006, 10:46

Originally Posted by Jantar

As Hitcher has already said. "Let it go."

So is this the attitude that, we as a society, should take (let it go) when three men (married in their 30's & 40's) who have positions in the community that wield clout, take full advantage of their status and position to abuse a young woman who has obviously had a tough time over it since.
You know, like we all know, that these guys behaved extremely poorly and crossed boundarys that a normal crossection of society would not. So just because rape could not be proved it doesn't mean thay are any better than they were before and that we should now accept them (assistant police commisioner) and just let it go..!
Lets just hope your teenage daughters/nieces or whatever dont start hanging around with 3 middle aged cops.

**Jantar** · 3rd April 2006, 10:55

Originally Posted by terbang

So is this the attitude that, we as a society, should take (let it go) when three men (married in their 30's & 40's) who have positions in the community that wield clout, take full advantage of their status and position to abuse a young woman who has obviously had a tough time over it since.

Lets just hope your teenage daughters/nieces or whatever dont start hanging around with 3 middle aged cops.

If my daughter (now in her early twentys) tells me that she has been raped, I'll lay a complaint immediately, and ensure that as much evidence as possible is taken.

If she waits 18 years, to tell me, then I'd have the opinion that if it wasn't bad enough to consider it rape back then, then its not rape now.

And I'd rather have my daughter hang around with a middle aged cop (or 3), than with the loser she's with at the moment.

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd April 2006, 10:55

Originally Posted by terbang

.... (married in their 30's & 40's) ......

To be fair, the events occurred 20 years ago. The cops involved were relative newcomers to the force and were not in their 30/40's at that time. However, the fact that they did not deny the sex shows a sick culture existed well before the allegations of that term in South Auck more recently. Sure, they are men under the uniform, but that does not excuse their behaviour. I'm with those on here that reckon Rickards & co should not be allowed to retain their job on the grounds of immoral behaviour.

**Hitcher** · 3rd April 2006, 10:57

Originally Posted by terbang

So is this the attitude that, we as a society, should take (let it go) when three men (married in their 30's & 40's) who have positions in the community that wield clout, take full advantage of their status and position to abuse a young woman who has obviously had a tough time over it since.

Lets just hope your teenage daughters/nieces or whatever dont start hanging around with 3 middle aged cops.

The alleged incidents took place 18 years ago, when the people in question were decidedly less than "middle-aged". The jury found the defendants not guilty on all charges. They were not on trial because of "their positions in the community".

**terbang** · 3rd April 2006, 11:01

Originally Posted by Jantar

If she waits 18 years, to tell me, then I'd have the opinion that if it wasn't bad enough to consider it rape back then, then its not rape now.

Or she could have felt intimidated, degraded and humiliated by her experience and the maturity of 20 years finally gave her the courage to speak up..
Or is that not allowed by the law..

**Patrick** · 3rd April 2006, 11:03

Originally Posted by u4ea

and they are called pigs for a reason................

Wallowing in shit, getting shit, dealing with shit, locking up shitheads... should be sewer workers really....

**Hitcher** · 3rd April 2006, 11:08

Pamphlets Reveal Suppressed Nicholas Case Info

NewsRoom.co.nz Agency Story at 11:03 AM, 03 Apr 2006

Pamphlets releasing suppressed information about two men last week acquitted in the Louise Nicholas rape case have been handed to Wellington commuters this morning.

Four young women printed and handed out 1,200 leaflets titled "We Believe Louise Nicholas" at the Wellington railway station.

The pamphlets contain information about two former police officers which was suppressed by the court and which media cannot broadcast.

One of the women responsible for the pamphlet, Grace Millar, says she knows the group is in contempt of court, but believes the public has a right to know the full story.

(c) NewsRoom 2006

**Goblin** · 3rd April 2006, 11:08

Originally Posted by terbang

So is this the attitude that, we as a society, should take (let it go) when three men (married in their 30's & 40's) who have positions in the community that wield clout, take full advantage of their status and position to abuse a young woman who has obviously had a tough time over it since.

Lets just hope your teenage daughters/nieces or whatever dont start hanging around with 3 middle aged cops.

I for one am finding it hard to "let it go"....These men were in a position of responsibility and abused that position in the worst possible way and have got away with it.

Originally Posted by u4ea

its hard to know wot Nicholas was thinking.i wonder if she woke up one day and felt guilty for having it off with her wormates knowing they were married.she doesnt get my sympathy.am a surviver myself and she isnt behaving like a victim.male cops are just men in uniforms,they still have animal instincts like everyone else.

So how does a victim behave? She has been fighting this for something like 13 years. I dont think it was a case of waking up one day feeling guilty for her actions...she was taken advantage of and had the guts to stand up & do something about it. That takes a huge amount of courage to go through what she has and I am really disappointed that these scumbags got away with it.

**Streetwise** · 3rd April 2006, 11:08

Originally Posted by Patrick

Wallowing in shit, getting shit, dealing with shit, locking up shitheads... should be sewer workers really....

Social Sewer workers,

**Paul in NZ** · 3rd April 2006, 11:48

Let it go? From a legal point of view? Certainly. I can see no grounds for appeal (unless new or previously suppress evidence is forthcoming) that would have any more chance of success in the courts.

Let it go from a social point of view? Thats slightly different.

3 Policemen took advantage of a situation that a lot of other people would have also leapt upon. I'm sure that there are people indulging in group sex every day in this country. Were they wrong to do this? Yes, of course they were. Was it illegal? Was it rape? Now THAT is the $64,000 question.

Pragmatically, the best people to fight crime are those that think a bit like criminals and are tough enough to get the job done. It's not a nice job, not a nice job at all and it does change people, sometimes not for the best either. Sometimes, the Police go over the line and do bad things for good reasons and sometimes society turns a blind eye to that because we all know it needs to be done and we are just glad we don't have to do it! But doing this has consequences! The lines get blurred, morals get blurred and the wrong people get hurt. But is that really what happened here? Did the lines get blurred?

Because the lines are always blurry! Criminals are seldom 100% evil and Policemen are rarely 100% innocent

The real judge in this situation will be society and I include the NZ Police in this. If a certain person is reinstated they will have a real credibility issue. If we just let it go, what are we saying about their actions?

No, I can't just let it go because the slide in our social behaviour has to be stopped. SENIOR Policemen cannot be caught doing stuff like this!

**terbang** · 3rd April 2006, 12:21

Too true there Paul and there is also an issue of supressing information. So if the public or society are to be the ultimate judge (well not quite because of god) then the truth needs to prevail. An alcoholic is an alcoholic, a bully is a bully, a gambler is a gambler, a speeder is a speeder and a rapist is a rapist. These are all patterns of behaviour that do have a relevant bearing on the way we see people in our society because it is all too esy to hide behind a uniform or a title in an attempt to remove oneself from the light of scrutiny and hide the truth. To then have the law supress evidence of such behaviour begs the question who really has control here (us the voters or them the servants) and do we really know what the truth is..?
Who are the good guys and what about the victims..
Rickard has a little bit of mud on his uniform, is publicly defiant and more than likely has a golden handshake coming his way. Nicholas remains the victim and thats to be her lot.. And all we say is "let it go" while there is witheld evidence out there that may give us a better picture (and in this case not a pretty one) of the behaviour of a part of our police force and how it can go wrong.. The door is still wide open for this kind of behaviour to continue so what have we (a supposedly civil and decent society), apart from serving the letter of the law, really achieved..?

**Goblin** · 3rd April 2006, 12:29

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

SENIOR Policemen cannot be caught doing stuff like this!

See the thing is they WERE caught. Not only getting caught but BOASTING about it years after.... and our justice system failed the victim. She did not dream up these events or lie about any of it but our Assistant Police Comissioner lied through his teeth....again, another abuse of power! And these are the people who uphold the law?
I can only hope that natural justice will prevail. Those scumbags will get what's coming to them in one way or another.

**Jantar** · 3rd April 2006, 12:40

Yes, They admitted the events. What they didn't admit to was rape.

The trial was on whether or not the events were consensual, not whether they happened. The flatmates evidence raised reasonable doubts on whether it was consensual group sex or rape. Personally I feel that they possibly were guilty, but on the evidence presented in the media there is no way a jury could convict them "Beyond reasonable doubt".

**u4ea** · 3rd April 2006, 12:44

Let it go from a social point of view? Thats slightly different.
Policemen are rarely 100% innocent

No, I can't just let it go because the slide in our social behaviour has to be stopped. SENIOR Policemen cannot be caught doing stuff like this!

thats how i see it too.ok good on her for reoporting it all. these years later,but she was a cop too and they seem to think they can behave as they wish.if we let it go then who will ever be socially moral if we are to be led by this example?

**terbang** · 3rd April 2006, 12:54

Originally Posted by Jantar

but on the evidence presented in the media there is no way a jury could convict them "Beyond reasonable doubt".

Have to agree there and we would be naive to think that police wouldnt know how fuck with evidence/jurys to suit their own purpose. Thats an important point here starting with finer issues such as Rickard fronting to court on the first day in his full police regalia. The truth never stood a chance in this case.