No burqas when riding, ok...

[Lou Girardin]

If the Police are concerned that identification is a problem, they must be expecting an big increase in female Muslim criminal immigrants. Or, they're expecting an awful lot of home-grown crims to have sex-changes and convert to Islam.
And, as has been said, the strict form of Islam that requires burkhas, aslo bans women from driving. They can't have it both ways.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I I don't have anything against or for burqa, but some people's behaviour and remarks are simply contradicting to the values that they preach.

I blinged you for that. absolutely right.

[Marmoot]

Seems as though some of the people in this thread are just looking to attack Islam.

It has something to do with Human Nature, with few basic elements such as:

1. Don't know don't care - what makes 1 american soldier casualty worth more than 500 dead iraqi civilians.

2. Different = don't belong - it is easy to marginalize someone that is different than the majority. That is why discriminations are always everywhere. Not just based on race, but also towards disabled people, gender (women in men-dominated society such as armed service, straight men in women-dominated society such as fashion industry, etc). And these discriminations more often comes sub-consciously. E.g: the persons doing it do not realize they are doing it.

Humans, basically, are a type of social animal. They still have basic animalistic instinct, normally suppressed by legal laws in everyday life. Frustrated state, large group or anonimity may trigger the animalistic instinct which will overcome the suppresant.
These instinct only concerns him/her with the welfare of his/her 'herd' (read: similar type of beings, either in physical appearance or ideas) and would give tendency to reject those outside the 'herd' as enemies.

How much of the instinct affect his/her behaviour depends on his/her social life (education, family values, etc). That is why some groups are easier to get incited into mobbing, while other groups appear to resort more to educational debates, etc.

Edit: I took a step back and read and thought "what the f**k am I writting?....." so I think I'd go out tonight and grab a few 'bottles' just to clarify my mind for a better weekend.......

[Hitcher]

Looking at the photo published in this morning's DominionPost and at the image on Stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3628771a11,00.html),
the muslim woman in question appears to be of European origin -- I suspect a New Zealand convert -- rather than of Middle Eastern or Asian stock.

On this basis, if she were to "go back to where she came from" she may only be going as far as Timaru or Dargaville.

Rather than a rednecked rant about recent immigrants, particularly those who don't look like "us", how about confining discussion to whether or not drivers of motor vehicles should be allowed to wear apparel that stops others identifying them? Isn't the real issue "religious freedom" versus vehicle operator identification?

And, on that basis, what's the difference between a niqab and a full-face helmet?

[Marmoot]

And, on that basis, what's the difference between a niqab and a full-face helmet?

exactly.........full-face helmets should be made of transparent resin compound reinforced by carbon-fibre frames?
But it would be a bit hard without the sponge padding unless they are transparent too.

And sunglasses should be made with clear glass........eh, what???.....

[Streetwise]

It has something to do with Human Nature, with few basic elements such as:

1. Don't know don't care - what makes 1 american soldier casualty worth more than 500 dead iraqi civilians.

2. Different = don't belong - it is easy to marginalize someone that is different than the majority. That is why discriminations are always everywhere. Not just based on race, but also towards disabled people, gender (women in men-dominated society such as armed service, straight men in women-dominated society such as fashion industry, etc). And these discriminations more often comes sub-consciously. E.g: the persons doing it do not realize they are doing it.

Humans, basically, are a type of social animal. They still have basic animalistic instinct, normally suppressed by legal laws in everyday life. Frustrated state, large group or anonimity may trigger the animalistic instinct which will overcome the suppresant.
These instinct only concerns him/her with the welfare of his/her 'herd' (read: similar type of beings, either in physical appearance or ideas) and would give tendency to reject those outside the 'herd' as enemies.

How much of the instinct affect his/her behaviour depends on his/her social life (education, family values, etc). That is why some groups are easier to get incited into mobbing, while other groups appear to resort more to educational debates, etc.

Edit: I took a step back and read and thought "what the f**k am I writting?....." so I think I'd go out tonight and grab a few 'bottles' just to clarify my mind for a better weekend.......

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

[ManDownUnder]

If logic should be applied, then since these women wear this thing and DON'T drive in 'their' country, then why should they expect to drive here, yet still wear etc...?

because they're allowed to drive here, and wearing it is in accordance with their beleifs and values.

[ManDownUnder]

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

Sure you can - unless they violate a law... and in this case there is a workaround. - See my post a while back
MDU

[chickenfunkstar]

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

Part of our 'social expectations' is that everyone if free to wear whatever they like. They can also believe in what they like. I like it that way, I'd hate to have the government tell me what I can and cannot wear.

Who's expecting their belief systems to be followed over here? Muslim's aren't saying that NZ women should have to cover their faces. It's their choice to do so and I don't have a problem with that.

[Marmoot]

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

That is a pretty harsh argument......let me show you why.

I asume the moslem women wears burqas because of their religion (their belief that it is a sin to 'tempt' other man. Note: this is their belief. This argument does not concern whether you think you will not be tempted).
If they do wear it because of their belief, then it is not a cultural issue.

In which case, NZ as a society can only adopt TWO different stance:
(1) tolerate their belief/religion as we tolerate other religion. Which means they should be allowed to wear burqas. OR,
(2) define their belief as non-acceptable, therefore condemning Moslems to be non-acceptable. I'd imagine it would be pretty harsh to ban a religion as big as Moslem.

I don't see a way of tolerating a religion but not one of it's value. For religion, it would be either YES or NO, and there would not be halfway.

Why? Because religion is different from culture.
With culture, you can change. It is only from family and social education.
But with religion/belief, it is between an individual and his/her God(s). You cannot say something is right or wrong unless that religion says so.

That is also why religion is the easiest to be used as mass control. If you control the religion, you control the mass. There is nothing any outsiders can do to prove the religion is wrong, regardless of anything.

Not only moslem in middle east, but also Catholocism (I'm a catholic), some Christian lines (Want to talk about Zed?), Jehovah's witness, Samoan Churches, Destiny Church, that church in US that did mass suicide, middle age crusades, etc.

Sad but true...Religion is a great concept misused...

[Streetwise]

here here, But when it starts to effect my children in schools, my life outside my home, ill say my piece. You cant sit there and tell me that nz isnt falling to pieces around us. mind you maybe you just dont care.

[Marmoot]

here here, But when it starts to effect my children in schools, my life outside my home, ill say my piece. You cant sit there and tell me that nz isnt falling to pieces around us. mind you maybe you just dont care.

falling to pieces? I disagree. It is more like 'rotting from inside'. Sort of brain-cancer but you're not allowed to medicate it.
Or being in your car with your family, and your mother fart great stink and your father tells you to inhale as much as possible or pay a fine.

[Streetwise]

owell once the free trade deal is signed with china, we will all be better off and have money flowwing from our pockets. We will be free to roam the earth and not worry about out little piece of dirt that we used to call home. aaaaaaaaaaaa wont it be bliss. YEA RIGHT.

[Marmoot]

owell once the free trade deal is signed with china, we will all be better off and have money flowwing from our pockets. We will be free to roam the earth and not worry about out little piece of dirt that we used to call home. aaaaaaaaaaaa wont it be bliss. YEA RIGHT.

you're going out of topic.......come back........come back..................

[Streetwise]

no im not its all part in parcel in my view.