Nukes??

[James Deuce]

It is a modern universal truth that in Democratic nation the people does not matter :slap:

There's no such thing on the planet. Representative Government isn't Democracy.

[MidnightMike]

Durka Durka Muhhammed Jihad.

KA bloody BOOOOOOMMM!

Lol, I forgot what I was going to say.

Mwahahaha.

At least there would be no more daily he bombed him stories on the news and in the papers, they are no longer interesting, the need to pimp it out.

Like ( On a push bike ) A back flip 360 to a bail suicide bombing

[Marmoot]

There's no such thing on the planet. Representative Government isn't Democracy.

*ahem* USA is a Democratic country. It is in their declaration of Independence, albeit with the old Greek definition instead of the Modern English one which they have become.

I believe we are too.

[Finn]

I first heard this on the news tonight but unfortunately the phone rang and by the time I got back theitem had been and gone. Did a quick search on the net and it appears that Bush has not ruled out any options on weapon deployment and use, should he decide to invade Iraq. from what little I can gather this has more to do with the prevention of Iraq from developing a nuke weapon programme. Iraq has consistantly maintained that nuke programm is for peacfull purposes.

So question
# 1 Who here believes that and Iraq nuke programe is only for peacfull purposes. Well I sure as hell don't. And I'm sure as hell that Bush and his advisors do not either. So failing to prevent Iraq from developing a nuke programm, question

#2 how does the US prevent Iraq from developing a Nuke weapon?

Now here's the rub. Given Bushes bullshit about Saddam Hussains weapons of mass destruction, (he had destroyed them so that there was no chance of the UN weapons inspectors of discovering them) who here believes that Bush will actually use them. Well I fucking well don't. Why should he when he's got the Israielis. These guys have been out of the equation for sometime but make no mistake, they will not allow another middle eastern power to aquire a nuclear arsinal.

Bush is playing a game that we are not privy too. He's considered enough of a looney to prabably get away with it. There's going to be some serious talking that going to paradise is not going to happen if you get vapourised.


Skyryder

I think you meant to say Iran. Mind you, Bush probably doesn't know the difference.

Keep in mind, they're not talking about dropping a nuke on Tehran, just the weapons facility which is in no mans land. I say nuke em. The news is a bit boring at the moment.

[Teflon]

What a great idea. That's a few less ragheads to worry about..

[James Deuce]

*ahem* USA is a Democratic country. It is in their declaration of Independence, albeit with the old Greek definition instead of the Modern English one which they have become.

I believe we are too.

The US was never founded on Direct Democracy. The debate was what type of representative government would be used, liberal or illiberal democracy. Liberal Democracy won.

Athenian democracy was always envisaged as the only form of fair government but it has been conceded that it didn't work if you couldn't gather all the citizens together to vote on each issue, every time an issue needed to be settled.

We're now equipped for direct democracy via a vast range of electronic media. But the opportunity won;t EVER present itself, largely because those who dabble in politics won't like having to accede to the demands of a democratic society. Plus they'll lose money personally if they can't push their pet projects through.

I think the commonly accepted belief, especially given the average voter turn out that hovers around 50% in the US, is that once you elect a "representative" you have lost control of your vote. The US is moving toward an illiberal democracy under the Bush/Republican model currently in action, while even NZ is becoming illiberal, evidenced by a growing number of solutions to problems that are entirely designed for vocal minorities.

I've yet to meet the NZ representative MP that gives a shit about any of the things that I care about. Representative government is about power broking between and against political entities at a macro level, irrespective of desires and concerns those that it represents at an individual level.

[kickingzebra]

Theres no bush in Iraq or Iran, lots of sand and a few cities, but no bush, no kiwis... No HoonDuhs or skawasnuckies, Just a sad sad place, and Nuclear material, and lots of brain washing... I know, I've seen that brad pitt and robert redford film about spying in middle eastern countries and china...

[Madness]

I mean the guy is surely not going to be re-elected after the New Orleans fiasco, not to mention the enormous debt being incurred as a result of the War Against Terror.
If you knew your job's days were numbered you'd want to push the big red button before you had to go off to the ranch in Texas to retire in anonimity, Hell he aint going to get speaking jobs like Clinton, Bush cant remember his own name half the time.
It was good to see the Pommy guy call the plan "Nuts" on the news, not playing puppets this time aye?

[Skyryder]

*ahem* USA is a Democratic country. It is in their declaration of Independence, albeit with the old Greek definition instead of the Modern English one which they have become.

I believe we are too.

Some time ago I got into a raging flamewar in one of the Militia forums that led to the defination of democracy. In the course of this 'robust' discussion I pointed out that the Westminster tradition of democracy is older as it's orogins date from the Magna Cartal (1215) than the American democracy which only dates from the War of Independance of 1763-1789) This fact was 'demolished' by the unequivical belief that the American system is older because it is based on the 'roman' model. Shit I use to have fun in those days.

But to be honest I am not sure what the difference is between the greek and roman other than the roman senat was based on the greek ideal. Anyone know?

Skyryder

[kickingzebra]

Maximus demeritus;
He is at the end of his term, and unable to be reelected as president, because unlike some dodgy backwater pacific states that think they are the tail that wags the dog, USA has election policy intended to stop powermongering, one of the methods being limited terms in office.

The real question come the election,as always is conservative men or liberal whatevers in the upcoming election.

[Madness]

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm

There is a small upside to nuclear devestation.....

[MacD]

*ahem* USA is a Democratic country. It is in their declaration of Independence, albeit with the old Greek definition instead of the Modern English one which they have become.

I believe we are too.

No mention of "democracy" in the Declaration of Independence.

Nor in the Constitution.

And of course the President is not elected by direct vote of the people but by the vote of the electoral college.

NZ is a Constitutional Monarchy, with the Representative of the Head of State appointed by the Government, and the leader of the Government, the Prime Minister appointed by the party which can form a government. At least we get to vote directly for a party these days due to MMP.

All of these structures seem quite divorced from the ideals of Athenian democracy...

[kickingzebra]

With this thread going the way it is, I am beginning to wonder if there will shortly be a market demand for pitchforks and flaming torches... Any takers?

[Timber020]

Bush is the only politician with balls. Will it come to nukes? I hope not, but as always it is going to be the nut behind the wheel. I doubt USA would fire first. They actually have morals.

Bush has balls? Doesnt take balls to order others to do the dirty work. The french prime minister has a stronger war record than the top 5 people in the whitehouse combined.

[babyB]

inho; put the leaders in a large sealed freezer & say "now fight ya silly buggers" (re-released in .....20yrs)