Self-inflicted death

[Scorpygirl]

A very thought-provoking topic and thanks to everyone for being so supportive and honest. All I can say is Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui.

I had a brother-in-law commit suicide by taking paraquat. He passed away three days later in ICU. He had bipolar disorder. It devastated us but I could also understand cause of my own depression.

As for me I know all about depression and suicide attempts. My last attempt was very touch and go in ICU and I was lucky to have no lasting organ damage. I have spoken about this in other threads on the topic. So I totally understand what people are saying.

I am sorry I can't write anymore about it.

[SPman]

I've had an Uncle, an Aunt and 13 cousins top themselves in the last 40 odd years.They werent all teenagers - the first funeral I ever went to was to Dads brother, who shot himself.! One lot of cousins lost the Mother, daughter and one of two sons! - the daughter threw herself off a bridge - after appearing to be quite happy for the preceeding 2 weeks! The Son cut his throat with a breadknife at a mates flat - it wasnt nice. Most came out of the blue - no immediate warning. Perhaps, if you could delve into their minds, you could have seen it coming - in some of them, anyway.....
Having approached the door myself, on several occaisions, all I can say is that it is like a dark, all enveloping ball of absolute hopelessness and despair -and the line between acting on it, or not, can be incredibly fine. All that stopped me was the knowledge of what suicides do to families - Ive seen it since 1962 - and it isnt nice. I guess I was lucky in that I could stand back and consider this.....because, once you cross that line in your mind, you are normally lost.

[FROSTY:Me]

Depression is like a deep dark pit. The world weighs ya down like carrying lead weights on your shoulders.
Every day drags on and you feel bone tired all the time.
Dying is just well easier than the effort of carrying on with life.

[kickingzebra]

Trying to think about the really serious people I have been around in that state. I would be lying to say I had never thought of it... Driving the 300zx at top speed, looking for a bridge with good concrete pillars to hit.

Was always too chicken at that moment though. Scared it would hurt. How dumb, was all I could think of to myself. For me it was debt, disability, and nothing I could do. Completely powerless, over everything in my life.

Thought of taking pills etc, but couldn't stomach the thought of something aching in my gut while I was still conscious. I would go out surfing by myself at TeArai, or the Forestry, and just think, I could float on out there, never be seen again. Then I would think about lying on the board, in the middle of the ocean, and being so thirsty.

The worst time was when I was working in a job I hated, with such a passion, but was being manipulated into working there, long night shift hours, no social contact, and I am a fairly social sort of beast.

It was four on four off, 12 to 14 hour shifts, and I hit the last night off. I went to see the couple of people who I looked up to, to try and get some sense out of my life, but they just couldn't understand where I was coming from, I never mentioned the word suicide, but I tried every way i could of hinting at it, hoping they would pull out some magic bullet, solve my problems, and it would all go away.

The problems were Debt, a young lady (surprise surprise) and just not knowing where I was going in the future, I was dying (no pun intended) to have it all planned out and happening. I didn't want to live the intermediate parts of Life, I wanted movie highlights.

So I talked to 2 people that night, and niether of them had the time of day. I should have guessed I wasn't quite in a right state of mind, because when that happens, I pick up cigarettes. Not to mock the people on here that do smoke, I always hated the habit, and have been an asthmatic for as long as I remember, but I had the smokes, and was working my way through the packet. Went and saw the first guy that night because he caught me, and I didn't want him to think I had issues... how bizarre in hindsight.
He couldn't help, so on to the second.

Was after midnight by then, and I hadn't been sleeping properly, night shift, and no peace within a person can be a deadly combination.

I jumped in my (2 week old cashed up, but not insured) car, (on my restricted) and started driving. Hit the turnoff for home, but the tears were so thick in my eyes, I couldn't see, and didn't want to go there, to feel the emptiness of my life anyway. So I carried on driving from Snells Beach to Warkworth, in towards Auckland, thinking, I will aim for Marton, to see Mum and Dad, or perhaps crash full frontal into a truck.

May sound weird, but that is pretty well my thoughts at the time verbatim.

So Im nearly at the turnoff to the sattelite station, and my emotions are fuelling themselves, the abyss of blackness is getting deeper, and deeper, I am so far into this absolute despair of anything, that I would have taken the first opportunity out, tears are everywhere, I have taken off my glasses (I am as blind as a bat without them) because they are so streaked with tears and fogged up from the heat of my face.

Then out of the corner of my eye, I see this girl, on the side of the road.
It was like a slap in the face. The tears stop, and I stop, and reverse back up to her, clean my glasses, and put them on, just as she comes walked up to the car. She is in bare feet, at 1:20 in the morning, (sunday night, queens birthday weekend 2002) So it is bloody cold (for auckland) clear night, and there stands this woman, about to get in the car with a young man that is thinking of not much other than ending the pain.

Even though I had thought of crashing into oncoming traffic, I didn't actually want to cause any pain, I just wanted to be away from mine. So to see this woman, on the side of the road, barefoot, obviously not in the happiest way herself, my heart revives itself from my pity party on a grand scale, and I put on the cheeriest face I can, and invite her into the car. As soon as she gets in, she sees my face, stil awash with tears, and the blotchiness of crying.

I suppose then, as the scientific principle states, two opposing waveforms cancelled each other, as we both pushed our own problems right to the back of our heads, and began trying to figure out what was wrong with the other person, and trying to help them. That is why I still have faith in the human spirit.

Turns out, she lived in Waiuku, some absolute dropkick of a guy had taken her out for a date, gone up to the bridgehouse in Warkworth, started flirting with an old flame, and ignoring the lady he was out with. After he was rude to her when she confronted him, she just left. Her womanly shoe things sandals, whatever, were still in his car, but she just started walking.

I always worry when I see any lady out hitchhiking, that if I don't pick them up, someone who doesn't have morals will, and will rape and pillage them. Hence I normally pick up female hitchhikers regardless.

I said I would take her home to Waiuku, which blew her away. Its not Like I had anything better to do, I was just going to go and kill myself, and leave a mess for the Speedmedics of this world to clean up.

At this stage I was 19 I suppose. Talked all the way back to her house, and then went inside for a coffee. She had warmed to me by this stage enough to offer me the night in her bed. Call it blind luck, but being as naieve and one eyed as I was then, if I had of realised what she was offering, I may have jumped at the chance. Instead, at 4:10 in the morning I decide to head for home.

Suicidal urges gone, my problems faded into near insignificance, I happily carry on my way. Starting to get tired now, as I think I had been two or three nights without sleep. I stop on the motorway, just before the Silverdale offramp, because I was so tired, I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore. Climp in the back seat, and fall asleep, only to be woken by a rapping on the window. Policeman stands there knocking with his torch. its 7 in the morning now. He tells me I am not allowed to stop there, and have to move on, after asking if I have been drinking. I say no. He doesn't check. (I hadn't)

feeling much less tired, but knowing that fatigue is still there, and not feeling at all like killing myself, I go to McDs, buy breakfast of pancakes, stop at the beach to eat them.

That done, I hit the road again. It has started drizzling now. I go up waiwera hill, get halfway down, going about 50 (if I recall rightly) and the front wheels spin out to the right, meaning the car is heading towards driving off the cliff.
Crap my daks, not wanting to die at all right at this moment, and spin the wheel to the left, full lock. Wheels clear the diesel spill, bite into the road, the car rolls, slides, then stops, and lands on its wheels again. All so fast.

There is blood all over my pants, and my hawaian shirt (green, not at all like affmans). My glasses have been wiped off my face in the crash. A truck I passed on the way out of orewa (it was still a 100 km zone then) stops on its way down the hill.
A mitsi diamante on its way up stops. If I had of been going 10 seconds earlier, I would have hit it.
I ask the truck driver to find my glasses, after I have climbed out the drivers window, door stoved right in. I look around while waiting, then as the glassses are handed to me, I see blood streaming down my arm. I am standing in a rather large puddle of my own blood.

Suicide is the furtherest thing from my mind, and I am impressed with my collected head, and stoicism. I request someone find my cellphone, so I can call my parents. The battery is flat.
The Diamante Lady offers me hers. I decline, don't want to get blood on it. She insists, I ring Mum, and say, I have had an accident, I am ok, but am waiting for the ambulance, oh, here is the police, I better go.
The police come, say to me, it is cold, come sit in my car. I am still convinced I don't want to get blood on anything.
The ambulance comes, I am allowed the joy of riding in the front seat.

This starts to erk me. 8 hours earlier, I was hellbent on erasing myself from this planets memory, now something bad happens, and I am not even in sufficiently bad enough state to be in the stretcher.
I laugh at the irony. I have to hold my own combine dressing on to try and stop too many leaks swilling around the lino floor of the old diesel, as it labours up waiwera hill.

I get closer to north shore hospital, and my abdomen starts hurting. I have a lot of glass imbedded in my right arm, deeply. It is cold. I know enough about internal bleeding to be getting scared now. The possibility of death is there, and what can be done. Really scared. now I know i don't want to die, it is too cold, too sterile. No hope once you are dead.

I tell the emergency doctor my abdomen is hurting.

All the while I am cracking jokes, trying to make light of the situation. The irony is cracking me up. They don't know my frame of mind from the night just gone, so don't quite see all the humour. I feel sorry for them, working public holidays, obviously understaffed.

I get given a pee cup. Blood mixes with urine. I'm scared again, and resolute that I am not going to die. Such a turnaround, I am astonished with myself, on one hand, I have nothing to live for, and everything to die for, but on the otherhand, a potential opportunity at death exists, and I refuse point blank to even think about accepting it.

Where does the will to live come from?

I am given x rays on my arm, and torso, then left sitting in the waiting room. I see a little girl with bandages on her arm, and what look like burn scars on her forehead. I feel so sad for her.

[kickingzebra]

The doctor brutally pulls all of the glass out of my arm, and finds some in my scalp too. A little bit of local, and squeeze, just like popping a pimple. The glass is out, re xray to make sure.

I'm getting tired now.

My phone is still dead. The hospital lets me call up some elderly friends of mine to come pick me up. The internal bleeding isn't bad, if it gets worse, I should see my doctor, but it shouldn't be a problem.

My friend arrives, and I ask to borrow his phone. I call Mum. She is a mess, yelling at me, "you ring, and tell me you have to go to hospital, and then I have no idea what is happening, or where you are. Why couldn't you call?"
I left my wallet in the car, couldn't buy a phone card. Its 3 in the afternoon. I am just worn out now. Emotional highs, lows, everything in between, and I haven't eaten since breakfast. Lost a lot of blood.
She tells me I should ring my brother, and tell him what has happened.

He is working as a salesman in Wellington. Not doing amazingly well at that I might add.
I phone him. He is in Hunterville. as soon as he heard I crashed, he begged borrowed and stole money off all of his friends to bring me his car, and make sure I am alright.

I feel like the biggest piece of shit on the face of the planet. I think no one cares, and they don't know what I was going to do. And thier response proves without a shadow of a doubt that I am loved so dearly.

He arrives at midnight, and nearly drives the car off the edge of the clifflike driveway I had in Sandspit. One rear wheel is stuck over the edge, and Eventually we manage to recover the vehicle without losing it to gravity. It is undamaged; A holden commodore station wagon.

Its now three in the morning, and I am worn right out, emotionally, physically drained.
Finally I collapse in the sleep of the dead.

The next morning I awake to an incredily sore belly, with tight spots down low. My arm really hurts, as does my head, from all the glass cuts. I realise how serious the accident was/could have been, when my brother buys me a pie. I finish eating it, and try to crinkle the paper wrapper up to put it in the bin. I can't. My arm is too weak to crush paper.


The things that brings to the fore for me?
I learnt I was not invincible, before that, death was surreal, not scary, not even sad, just there. After these events, I realised It can happen, and when it does, it can be so quick.

I realised how selfish my view of the world was. I had to end my pain, because I couldn't figure out my life.

I realised that when you ask people for help, they don't always know how to give it.

I began to realise, and this is ongoing, how little in control I actually am. There are a million examples of this. I can only control what happens inside me, and what I do in return. Everything else is variable. The illusion of control in our lives is just that, an illusion. We depend on people we have never seen for the very food we eat. We are not in control of our lives. We can only try and understand, and control our own emotions, and our own selves.

I realised that I was cared for, and greatly so. I was so humbled. What would the response have been if I had succeeded at offing myself? what if I had managed to top some unsuspecting truckdriver as well? What impact would I have had on the people who would have been there to clean up?

Would anyone even know it was suicide? There was some "righteous" vindication, in the mind of me, by making people think and feel about what they would have lost if I was to die at my own hand. I wanted the sympathy. Of course one wouldn't want that while alive, so one has to be dead to get it. The irony of not being able to appreciate it while dead was unimportant to me.

I learnt that in dealing with people who have been serious about killing themselves, the only thing to do is to establish trust, and let them talk. We too easily solve peoples problems, when they don't neccesarily need to be solved, just shared, put into perspective. They aren't put into perspective by us saying, "well, look at what you have!" they are minimised by openly listening, not judging, and not telling, not fixing.

I found out that the great equaliser, is to be in the position where one can help other people. It is hard to look on ones own misfortune, when graphically faced with the plight of someone else, more heart rending than your own.

I would be a liar to say that I still don't suffer from the depression. The difference is now, I try and talk about it. I might ring my parents, and say, hell, I don't care if you don't understand, can I just talk? I try and talk to my wife, although that can be hard, because one wants to appear strong to ones spouse. I write things like this. Hell, I was feeling the march of the Black Dog last night. I did just that, I rung my parents, talked for an hour and a half.

Now I sit here, and write this, and remember to myself, that it is passing, that the feelings aren't the only truth, much less the whole truth. The reality of any situation is much more than I can see at this point in my emotional cycle.

I know this is very long, so full credit to you if you read it all, I hope it helps you in some way. I can assure you, it has fogged up my eyes tonight, and when I am tempted to take the hardass view of suicide, I just need to remember how it has plagued me, and other people very close to me.
I too have had friends die from suicide. The thought that strikes me is that it feels so empty without these people. Something is missing, and it doesn't feel right, unlike someone dying of old age, that is still hard, but when you are expecting it, it is part of the cycle of life. The loss is not as keen, the greif not as clear and present. The sorrow is tinged with happy memories. Suicide just steals that person away, leaving a bitter taste.

Cheers guys.

Anyone wanting to take the piss, go for gold, I have broader shoulders now, and hopefully a wiser head on them.

[scumdog]

Good one, I read it all.

Only takes a small 'bolt from the blue' to give you a new perspective on life eh?

[kickingzebra]

Perspective is the never ending new horizon...
(I just made that up, does it sound flash?)

[scumdog]

Perspective is the never ending new horizon...
(I just made that up, does it sound flash?)

I'd go with that!

There is always something new and exciting on the horizon if you look hard enough.....

[Mrs Busa Pete]

[QUOTE=kickingzebra]
I have read the lot and i would suggest that anyone that has said that they care or can't understand read the lot as well.The thing is it was not your time to go and the accident was for you to see that as well.I think you will understand what i'm saying.
I to have tryed but the differance is that to me pills where the easy way because i dont like pain and the thought of driving into someone else car or cutting my wrists well that would hurt.Do you know when some one is think of taking there own life that a lot of thought goes into the how and the when.The night i tryed i had no feeling what so ever i just though they would be all better off without me and that they would have to find someone else to shit on.I to was told how the hell i survived bet them i was in a coma for two days and icu for another two days.I can't say i would not try again i don't know because on an average i fight with that thought 5 out of 7 days a week and that is year round there are a couple of things that stops me now and that is someone will have to find me and also my grandchildren. but if i do i know what i have to take i will go out of my way to get it and that was care of the my doctor i wonder if he relized what he told me i dont think so someone asked earlyer in this thread do depressed people notice other depressed people when they are in the supermarket the answer is no because we are pretty good a hidding what we feel.the other thing is when i'm down i dont leave the house i'm to tire i cant get dressed i dont eat so dont need anything from supermarket anyway. That is enought from me.
IF YOU ARE AROUND SOMEONE YOU THINK IS IN A SUICIDE STATE OF MIND
stay with them don't talk unless they want to talk don't offer advice unless they ask for it. Auckland hospital has a crises team there give them a call and they will send the right person to help.DONT LEAVE THEM ALONE.To all you that are out there with this problem take care look after yourself and should you want someone just to sit with give a call and i will be there this goes out to anyone that is having to deal with someone that is depressed as well

[RiderInBlack]

All I can say is Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui.

Thanks for that Scorpy. Been looking for that proverb for a while now. Could ya translate it? Think it gets something like: Stand tall, Stand proud ........ But I cann't remember it all now.

[RiderInBlack]

Thank you Mods (you know why).

[MSTRS:Me]

Anyone wanting to take the piss, go for gold, I have broader shoulders now, and hopefully a wiser head on them.

Wow, what a story of hope. No way would I take the piss. I would like to know whether that girl from Waiuku is now your wife. Either way, you are blessed.

Thank you Mods (you know why).

Yes indeed....thanks from me too

[Smorg]

I was surprised that even though we always seemed to be fighting and mum would threaten to send me to boarding school to get rid of me,
.

You would have loved it mate, I went to an all boys boarding school out in the New England Country in NSW Australia and loved every second of it.
I had a friend there who commited suicide when i was 15. I think he had been troubled for sometime and had been contemplating suicide and had slit his wrists on one occasion but finished the job with an oncoming train. Used to call him the BFG (big fucking giant) 6 foot 6 when he was 15, nicest guy you've ever met and one of the boys to every extent. I often wish that if i had been a bit more mature and a little less ignorant that i might have been able to make a bit of a difference to the way he was thinking. I'll always remember sitting in the school hall while they called the boys out one by one then made the annoucement to the school. We had heard something about it on the radio but no names had been mentioned. Worst day of my life, cant begin to think what it was like for his parents

[kickingzebra]

Wow, what a story of hope. No way would I take the piss. I would like to know whether that girl from Waiuku is now your wife. Either way, you are blessed.

Yes indeed....thanks from me too

Nope, not my wife I am afraid. In all of that I never even got her contact details! I think that I think makes the whole thing more powerful, strangers to be sure, but a bond beyond words, and the willingness to help out a total stranger, in defereance to ones own problems.

I met my wife probably 6 months later.

The girl I was pining for in the first place married another Jonathan.
Hindsight tells me I am quite glad I didn't win her!

[Milky]

Big thanks to Motoracer for starting this thread up, and to those who have shared their experiences.
I have been very close before, but ever since hearing from one of my close friends about his experience I have a reminder not to. He was one of those vibrant, happy seeming people, amazingly successful at sport, and definitely not one I would have guessed would try. He had the rope up in the basement, was standing on the chair about to kick it away when he heard a voice saying 'Matt, I have great plans for you.' Since then he has been heavily involved in church and is now representing NZ in AFL. He is probably the deciding factor for me sticking around.

It's quality of life, not quantity.

Amen to that.