Anzacs

[Highlander]

Good sentiments from all you lot. Well done

[Scorpygirl]

Anzac day confuses me.

Gallipoli had a significant role in establishing our identity as a nation rather than a colony - but our soldiers weren't fighting to protect our own land. It could be argued that NZ had little justification sending its young and fit to that conflict. So yes remember it but commemorate it?

I think both the First and Second World Wars saw us identify as a nation. However you must remember it was not until after the Second World War that we really saw ourselves as separate from England - up until then she was the Mother Country, as many families were recent immigrants. "Where she goes, we go. Where she stands, we stand. Where she falls, we fall." Plus it was seen as an adventure to see far off places for many of the young fellas at the time (little did they know of the horrors to come). The tradition is still held today, not in war, but in the big OE.

[rfc85]

just got back from thames,went to the 10 am parade(inside due to the rain) with my father,first time he has been for 30 years as he had a shit fight with the RSA years ago, it was great ,hes,90 next month and has trouble walking(goes in for an op for cancer tomorrow) mum,one of my brothers,my brothers son and his sons were there,and the old man really enjoyed it, he served in Crete,Greece, Africa and Italy and got the MM for bravery as well as several MID,s and it was very moveing seeing him as the last post was played,sure had me sniffing and weeping a bit

[Kickaha]

I hope Maori Television gets an award for its coverage today. Superb.

It certainly was

[Velox]

Argh - the comp just ate my reply.

Summarised: I saw the programme on another channel with Ellen from Shortland St (sorry!) following the trail of her great uncle (I think) who was in the war. The bit that really brought it home was when it mentioned one of the graves - a young fella from the Waikato and I was thinking how absolutely aweful and gut-wrenching it must've been for a young guy to be existing in skin-rotting mud for weeks, in constant cold and pain with the smell of dead bodies and being as far away from NZ as they could while knowing that their family and farm were just waiting for them back home in the Waikato in total peace. Don't think I could've coped. It's real good to be reminded each year of what they went through.

[Oscar]

Anzac day confuses me.

Gallipoli had a significant role in establishing our identity as a nation rather than a colony - but our soldiers weren't fighting to protect our own land. It could be argued that NZ had little justification sending its young and fit to that conflict. So yes remember it but commemorate it?

I find it ironic that defeat at Gallipoli should be so closely linked to NZ identity.
The reason most soldiers volunteered was because they considered themselves British. That was why they went and you would hard pressed to find any contemporary argument along the lines of NZ's self interest - our interest was Britains..

On the other hand WW1 was the first "modern" conflict which demonstrated what mindless imperialism combined with the development of weapons technology could lead to. WW2 was genuine self defense but showed that mankind was now capable of waging "global and absolute" war.

I will continue to commemorate ANZAC day - but not so much for the lives given in the pursuit of peace (which is a phrase you hear often on ANZAC day, but for the lives given in order to teach us/mankind some great lessons.

Aside from the obvious British Imperialist agenda the simple reason for the declaration of war by Britain on Germany was the invasion of Belgium. In that way it was very similar to the start of WW2.

[Hitcher]

I think that it speaks volumes for New Zealanders that the three military conflicts that resonate stronger than others were all defeats: Gallipoli, Crete and Cassino. We are a nation that is happy to serve in international conflicts but not one that "glorifies" war.

[Skyryder]

Aside from the obvious British Imperialist agenda the simple reason for the declaration of war by Britain on Germany was the invasion of Belgium. In that way it was very similar to the start of WW2.

It was Poland not Belgium.

First World War was the antoginism between Serbia and Austria-Hungary. It was the Austria-Hungarians who declared war on Serbia.

Skyryder

[Oscar]

It was Poland not Belgium.

First World War was the antoginism between Serbia and Austria-Hungary. It was the Austria-Hungarians who declared war on Serbia.

Skyryder

In WW1 Great Britain declared war on Germany only after Germany invaded Belgium.

In WW2 Great Britain declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland.

[Hitcher]

In WW2 Great Britain declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland.

And, in the case of WWII, the Greymouth Evening Star declared war on Germany before the British did!

[Oscar]

And, in the case of WWII, the Greymouth Evening Star declared war on Germany before the British did!

Actually, due to the vagaries of the international dateline, New Zealand declared war on Germany 12 hours before the British did...

[Skyryder]

Actually, due to the vagaries of the international dateline, New Zealand declared war on Germany 12 hours before the British did...

That might have something to do why we heard about the Kennedy assasanation before it happened. Well not actually before it happened but what's a few mistruths when it comes to a conspiracy theory.

The New Zealand perspective

Translated to New Zealand time, the Kennedy assassination took place at 7.30 am, Saturday, 23 November 1963. Oswald was taken into custody at 8.50 am, at first charged with the shooting of Dallas Patrolman J D Tippit. The press knew of Oswald's being in custody by 10 am and could begin gathering information about him. The Christchurch Star was published in the early afternoon.
Christchurch Star connection

Preoccupation with the Christchurch Star connection had existed since 1963 but intensified with the release in 1992 of Oliver Stone's movie JFK, which puts forward a conspiracy view of the assassination. It uses, as part of its evidence, the front page of the Star of 23 November 1963. There were claims that the Star coverage contained information which was pre-packaged by conspirators prior to the assassination taking place and distributed in the US and then sent out to New Zealand very soon after the event. They say Oswald's background was reported far too quickly and it must have been a CIA-planted cover story.


Skyryder

[Biff]

Forever in your debt.

[WRT]

Why are they selling poppies, Mummy?
Selling poppies in town today.
The poppies, child, are flowers of love.
For the men who marched away.

But why have they chosen a poppy, Mummy?
Why not a beautiful rose?
Because my child, men fought and died
In the fields where the poppies grow.

But why are the poppies so red, Mummy?
Why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood, my child.
The blood that our soldiers shed.

The heart of the poppy is black, Mummy.
Why does it have to be black?
Black, my child, is the symbol of grief.
For the men who never came back.

But why, Mummy are you crying so?
Your tears are giving you pain.
My tears are my fears for you my child.
For the world is forgetting again.

[Skyryder]

Why are they selling poppies, Mummy?
Selling poppies in town today.
The poppies, child, are flowers of love.
For the men who marched away.

But why have they chosen a poppy, Mummy?
Why not a beautiful rose?
Because my child, men fought and died
In the fields where the poppies grow.

But why are the poppies so red, Mummy?
Why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood, my child.
The blood that our soldiers shed.

The heart of the poppy is black, Mummy.
Why does it have to be black?
Black, my child, is the symbol of grief.
For the men who never came back.

But why, Mummy are you crying so?
Your tears are giving you pain.
My tears are my fears for you my child.
For the world is forgetting again.

Stirling stuff. That is a great poem. Who wrote it??


Skyryder