Death on Everest

[justsomeguy]

And if we accept Hilary's implicit dismissal of defense of impracticality, then it comes down to values and ethics. Which we are all qualified to judge.

Ixion, in my humble and comparatively ignorant opinion I believe under those conditions values and ethics will always have to defend themselves against individual's strong survival instincts, which by thier very nature are primal and not necessarily societal and logical.

[oldguy]

IMHO - he would have been a hero if he had forgone his climb to the summit and helped the Brit guy out, even if he was dying. Under no circumstances do you leave anyone, anywhere to die on their own.

Too right could not have put it any better

[SwanTiger]

And if we accept Hilary's implicit dismissal of defense of impracticality, then it comes down to values and ethics. Which we are all qualified to judge.

Indeed.

The Values and Ethics exhibited by those involved is what I am concerned with. I realise and accept that none of the equipment capable of saving David's life was available to those propositioned with his plight.

And for those going on about the 'lack of capacity' to function normally at those altitudes are horribly ill-informed. At sea level our blood saturation is 98% and at the Sumit of Mount Everest it has been observed at 40%. Despite this, many Nepal natives climb the mountain on a regular basis without supplementry oxygen.

One of the great things which make some Humans immune to the dreaded AMS is having a low HVR. Two climbers in particular were made famous for being the first to sumit Everest without supplementry oxygen.

Out of all the people who traversed pass David, the likely hood of one of them having low HVR would be quite high. This would of meant a rescue attempt or any attempt to resurrect the fading life of David was within the physical and mental capabilities of those who were aware of his situation.

In a round about way, I think this is Hillary's point - if you are capable of doing something, ANYTHING, then you are responsible as a human being to do so. But that is the human race for you.

I'm a bit with Paul though, one more death, there will be more. Who really cares?

[Timber020]

I have done a bit of mountaineering both in NZ and overseas. Making comments about this situation is like us telling soldiers who fought in vietnam how they did it wrong. Mountaineering is hard core, you have to be prepared to do things that one would normally have to contimplate in everyday life.

At the height that they were at they are dying, its not a question of if your going to die at that height, its when. And the only thing thats going to save you is your limited amount of oxygen and to not stick around for long.
You cant think, the only thing your numb mind can do is listen to that driving voice that got you there, telling you to keep going. You can barely climb with your own weight, let alone contimplate carrying someone else.

Nobody gets to everest without knowing that they are risking everything and that theres a great chance there will be no help if they do get into trouble. He chose to be there and knew the risks, we shouldnt judge other who chose not to risk all that they have done and there lives to help him (when he was probably beyond saving anyhow)

[Shadows]

Inglis lost both his legs to the ice yet had the perseverance to reach the summit again. Don’t judge him by one action and ignore the rest of his life’s work. Stop being so narrow minded.

"Life's work"... pffft.
You make him out to be some kind of fucking philanthropist. I couldn't give a rats fucking arse if he climbed to the moon. Just some self serving showpony (thanks Swannie, that's the term I was looking for) who wanted to walk up a poxy mountain. Nobody will benefit from his "life's work" so why should anybody give a fuck.
He'll probably want his face on the next minting of the fucking 5 dollar note, to acknowledge his huge sacrifice for the public good.
Wanker

[Beemer]

I have read all - and given green rep to some - of the posts in this thread and I can appreciate the views of both sides.

I feel very sad for the family of the climber who died but I still come back to the same point each time - where was HIS support crew? By all accounts he was alone when Mark and his team came across him and he had obviously been alone and in a bad way for several hours. Climbing Mt Everest is a huge challenge and one that every person there needs to prepare for. There have been stories about dodgy oxygen bottles and I would think that having enough oxygen would be THE most important thing to get sorted - something this guy didn't do.

Mark Inglis and his team WERE prepared or they wouldn't have safely - apart from his fingertips - made it to the summit and back. I think it must have been a heartbreaking decision for them to make to carry on and leave the dying man where he was, but what could they realistically do for him? By the sound of it he was very close to death and at that point I doubt if he was even aware of their presence. He had been in that state for hours - did any other climbers pass him during this time? And again, where was his team - I bet he didn't climb the mountain alone but unfortunately he was left to die alone.

I watched the interview with Jan Hall tonight and she was very careful not to apportion blame, saying that at those altitudes, keeping yourself alive is a supreme effort. Yes, her husband died on that mountain too, but even she could see that the decision to leave this dying man there was - if not morally right - the right thing to do in the circumstances. Yes, Hillary does have the right to comment - but NOT to judge. To be honest, I think it is time they left him in peace as he is no longer the strong 'hero' figure he once was. He seems almost confused at times and I think he's starting to feel his age.

I feel very sorry that Mark's achievement has and always will be overshadowed by this controversy because it is a great achievement for anyone - with or without being an amputee.

[SwanTiger]

I asked a friend of mine over MSN what he thought of this and his response brought me to a fit of laughter. I'm sorry if you don't see the funny side to his ignorance/opinion of the situation.

Anaru says:
What do you think of Iglis and his party leaving the other climber to die on the Mountain?
Will says:
I think they're all fucking nuts climbing it anyway
Will says:
I think Inglis is a fucking nutcase - he's fucked in the head
Will says:
it's no wonder he lost his fucking legs he doesn't deserve them if he's going to do shit like climbing fucking mountains
Will says:
mountains are high for a reason dickfucks

[ZeroIndex]

I asked a friend of mine over MSN what he thought of this and his response brought me to a fit of laughter. I'm sorry if you don't see the funny side to his ignorance/opinion of the situation.

hahaha.. he has a point..

[Lou Girardin]

I think a few here are missing the point, it's not whether you can save him, it's about giving comfort to someone who will soon be dead. Or is that no longer needed in these days of self above all.
I'd forgotten about Rob Hall, but he was a true hero, a word that has lost it's meaning, he knowingly gave his life rather than abandon his client. The client wasn't even a friend, but he was human.
As this story goes on, Inglis version becomes more detailed in it's self-justification. He's now saying that it was a matter of his own survival.
What patent nonsense, if his survival was at risk, why did he continue?
It's just a shame that he is the only one named, they should also name the other 40.
I guess the true punishment for his callousnes is that a fine achievement has been overshadowed.

[Big Dave]

"Physically Disabled Kiwi Conquors Everest" (which is what it will probably be around the world except here)

I'm with Swannys mate - although working at MSN - he must have some issues too!

[Finn]

I was disgusted by some of the letters that people submitted to TV News. They made it sound like climbing Everest was a walk in the park. Pricks. I noted that Helengrad had to mention that she climbed up to 3000 metres and that was tough enough. If I was descending Everest and stumbled across her in similar circumstances, they would have found her body covered in urine.

[Paul in NZ]

Look, everyone has an opinion about these things and nothing is ever black and white. We were not there and we don't reliably know what happened, what the real state of this guy was or what could have been done.

What we do know is that MI has overcome injuries that would leave most of us rocking on the front porch and has done something amazing, if not slightly pointless and selfish.

However, I really think the whole mountaineering thing has gone frickin nuts. Climbing everest has become a thing to be ticked off the list by uncle tom cobbly and all and there are some terrible things going on up there. Much worse than you can imagine!!

Have a look at this.

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=2092

If this is to be believed, you have parties ransacking others camps for supplies etc... For gods sake.. Is it worth it? I bet thats something else that didn't happen in sir eds day... Nah, they just left all their shit behind..

The whole thing sickens me quite frankly. We are all turning into a bunch of selfish shallow thrill seekers. Like I said, the more people I meet, the more I like my dog..

And I'm not that keen on the dog....

[emaN]

Was Hillary really the first man up that mountain?

ooooo, don't go there man!

Crane. Denny Crane.

Denny or Danny?


By the looks of things, there's only a couple of us here who can relate to the extreme conditions at those altitudes. (My climb limited to 2,165m probly doesn't qualify me...).

There was a mountain climbing documentary shown in the UK a couple yrs ago; a panel of climbers each said that as an un-written rule you are only responsible for yourself up there.

[Edbear]

Look, everyone has an opinion about these things and nothing is ever black and white. We were not there and we don't reliably know what happened, what the real state of this guy was or what could have been done.

What we do know is that MI has overcome injuries that would leave most of us rocking on the front porch and has done something amazing, if not slightly pointless and selfish.

However, I really think the whole mountaineering thing has gone frickin nuts. Climbing everest has become a thing to be ticked off the list by uncle tom cobbly and all and there are some terrible things going on up there. Much worse than you can imagine!!

Have a look at this.

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=2092

If this is to be believed, you have parties ransacking others camps for supplies etc... For gods sake.. Is it worth it? I bet thats something else that didn't happen in sir eds day... Nah, they just left all their shit behind..

The whole thing sickens me quite frankly. We are all turning into a bunch of selfish shallow thrill seekers. Like I said, the more people I meet, the more I like my dog..

And I'm not that keen on the dog....

Tend to agree with you, and thanks for the link. It's obviously the "New Wild West" up there! Another example of how selfish and uncaring people can be to their fellowman. I can't judge Mark or his group but from all reports they probably did all they could under the circumstances.

[marty]

i second the John Krakaur 'Into Thin Air' - a great read..

and Finn, wouldn't it be FROZEN urine?

i've been at 5500m in the snow, stuck on an ice shelf, waiting 3 hours for the wind to die down below 100mph so i could take another step. i can tell you - i didn't give a fucking RATS about anyone else, except my own family so very far away, during that time.

if any of you want to get a taste of what these guys are putting themselves through, do the round the mountain (ruapehu) track in the middle of winter, in the middle of a storm. put in a climb to the summit on the way.

THEN come on here and critisize.


although you probably won't be able to, cause you'll more than likely be dead.