Our future leaders

**iwilde** · 9th June 2006, 23:46

Was reading through the herald and saw this http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectID=10385838

Imagine ridding over that shit, even at the legal speed limit! And whats worse is the no remorse. Their parents should face a very harsh punishment as the did a shit job at draging up these two little halfwitted fucks! Well thats my rant and rave for the day

**Drum** · 10th June 2006, 00:10

These guys arnt going to be leading anything.

Just gonna cost tax payers another $80k each a year - but not till they're 18!

**C_A** · 10th June 2006, 00:29

nice......
fuckin dicks

**oldrider** · 10th June 2006, 00:30

That shit would be real fun on a bike, wouldn't it!

**James Deuce** · 10th June 2006, 07:35

The responsibility NEVER lies with the people that do these things, does it?

It's not them, it's their parents, or society, or the sports teacher that buggered them behind the bicycle sheds.

Old enought to know better. The parents should be working with the courts to enforce the punishment, instead, thanks to 30 years of attitudes and legislation babying kids, they'll be second guessing themselves about what shit parents they are and going through "counselling". Which is really just talking to an over qualified fence post, who doesn't give a shit.

**Dafe** · 10th June 2006, 07:56

I'm hearing ya Jim. But don't you think the ethics of a person are most strongly influenced and moulded from the time they are very young?

Three to Four months ago there was a European couple touring the North Island just north of Auckland.
The woman had noted a couple of very young maori children hitting and assaulting their pup.
The woman also noted that the parents were sitting within view and were totally oblivious to the rather painful undeserving punishment this pup was receiving. The children throwing stones and rocks at the pup.
The woman also noted the pup had lost one eye previously.

The tourists approached the adults and complained about the behaviour to the dog. Big Mistake.
The Maori male adult stood up, picked up the pup, held it high above his head and slammed it into the ground, killing it, before proceeding to tell the tourists where to go.

My point here is, that if the parents don't enforce against such behaviour then quite often, that behaviour is in a sence - Promoted as acceptable.

I don't believe full blame is to be bestowed upon parents, but I do believe that the parents have a very strong say in the behavioural upbringing of their children and I do believe that in 9 out of 10 cases such as this, The parents are to a degree responsible for their insufficient raising of their children.

A neglected parental upbringing often results in disrespecting and criminal behaving youths.

A big problem this country faces is the changing of todays youth, due to a government that is so Politically correct, parents cannot enforce their own children with a good smack, which has always been the most effective way to make a child understand respect and consideration.

**Nicksta** · 10th June 2006, 08:05

grrrrrrrr
this shit makes my blood boil.... those punks will get youth aid: another word for a slap on the hand....
i believe you are a product of your upbringing.. the parents should take at least 50% of the blame here and take their punishment for raising bad children...
as for the example above about the puppy... that father should have been prosecuted for cruelty to animals and setting a bad example...

**Dafe** · 10th June 2006, 08:09

Originally Posted by Nicksta

as for the example above about the puppy... that father should have been prosecuted for cruelty to animals and setting a bad example...

That guy was turned into the authorities, I don't know what his punishment was, but it would have been reasonable as the SPCA pressed the charges.
Lucky it wasn't just the department of courts involved or it would have been another slap on the hands (Adult aid?) and another pup the very next day.

**justsomeguy** · 10th June 2006, 08:19

Originally Posted by Nicksta

the parents should take at least 50% of the blame here and take their punishment for raising bad children...

I've known a few cases of people who've gone to the best schools, come from the best homes, lacked nothing financially, yet chose the wrong route of life.

I didn't read reports of those parents hiding in a bush with a gun to those kids heads or threats of punishment if the kids refused to attack the motorway.

A thirteen year old knows very well the difference between right and wrong, he makes the choice whether to do right or wrong.

**Dafe** · 10th June 2006, 08:22

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

A thirteen year old knows very well the difference between right and wrong, he makes the choice whether to do right or wrong.

Originally Posted by Dafe

I don't believe full blame is to be bestowed upon parents, but I do believe that the parents have a very strong say in the behavioural upbringing of their children and I do believe that in 9 out of 10 cases such as this, The parents are to a degree responsible for their insufficient raising of their children.

And that would be the 1 out of 10, I wasn't talking about. Yep, parents aren't always to blame. But most the time they are.

**Nicksta** · 10th June 2006, 08:26

JSG... at that age, they are still minors... and supposed to be under supervision of their parents or care giver....
that was just an example above, there are many more....
my friend was hospitalised after being beaten to a pulp after very accidentally hitting a 2 year old on the road taht came out of a steep driveway on their trike... he had nowhere to go, hit the child, and unfortunately killed her... there was no supervision of that child, a neighbor called someone, and a few mins later my friend gets beaten to near death for an accident... no one would have been able to avoid hitting her on the road.. and again, it was non-supervision that caused the accident... parents are to blame a lot for children's upbringing.....

**James Deuce** · 10th June 2006, 08:38

I've got 3 kids and they come with a bunch of preset behaviours, and they are all very different. Nurture has very little to do with personality, despite what self aggrandising parenting "experts" will tell you.

Values can only be imparted by example, and punishment can only be effective if it is used rarely and the consequences are both dire, and consistently enforced. As you've rightly pointed out Dafe, the most effective parenting tool has been removed from the arsenal, but most people (children are people too), once they have use of the tools of reasoning and imagination, don't do stupid shit that hurts other people.

This event is a rare one. It is not undertaken by every person, it isn't representative of the broader aspects of human social cooperation. They were 13 and 15. Most Social Sciences professionals believe that the dawn of reason arrives at about 4 on average. I don't see bad parenting (if indeed you could define their parents as "bad") as the sole reason, or maybe not even a contributing factor, that these two ignoramuses felt they could perform a criminal act with impunity.

For some reason that escapes me, I see a broader attitude to family that doesn't reflect how the world works anymore in action that allows everyone else to pass judgement on two people (the parents) from afar, with no understanding of their situation at all. And no desire to understand it.

"It's the parents fault", "I blame the family". Come on guys, they were 13 and 15. It is their own "fault". Instead of being made to clean it up and then dragged home by a beat cop to be humiliated in front of their parents who would then provide their own relevant form of punishment, every voter out there has allowed proven tools to be removed from the parenting arsenal. Youth Aid can bleat at the 13 year old all they want. They have little power to do anything to the little sod. The best thing that could happen to him is that the 15 year old goes away for a bit of corrective therapy.

It's really easy to blame the parents. These two kids were old enough to know better. There are more people than just parents involved in imparting values to children. Extended family, schools, media, friends and their families, and the attitudes of Government in general. If that doesn't work, then you've obviously got a couple of dickheads.

**James Deuce** · 10th June 2006, 08:44

Originally Posted by Nicksta

JSG... at that age, they are still minors... and supposed to be under supervision of their parents or care giver....
that was just an example above, there are many more....
my friend was hospitalised after being beaten to a pulp after very accidentally hitting a 2 year old on the road taht came out of a steep driveway on their trike... he had nowhere to go, hit the child, and unfortunately killed her... there was no supervision of that child, a neighbor called someone, and a few mins later my friend gets beaten to near death for an accident... no one would have been able to avoid hitting her on the road.. and again, it was non-supervision that caused the accident... parents are to blame a lot for children's upbringing.....

You can't watch all your kids all the time. It isn't possible.

It doesn't matter that they were minors. They should have known better without having someone sitting on their shoulder telling them what to do. They did it. Not the parents, not even by proxy.

**James Deuce** · 10th June 2006, 08:48

Originally Posted by Dafe

And that would be the 1 out of 10, I wasn't talking about. Yep, parents aren't always to blame. But most the time they are.

No they're not. Parenting children in the style we do has only been around since the advent of two things - The Industrial Revolution, and hardcore Protestant Missionaries.

It isn't possible for two people to be isolated from their community and then be expected to raise their kids on their own. Hilary Clinton, God save us, is right; it DOES take a village to raise a child.