Could the lack of discipline be the problem?

**Big Dave** · 16th June 2006, 17:25

Originally Posted by yungatart

Yep, managed 1st XI hockey team for three years, coached soccer for two, [/COLOR]

Hmmm - now you got me thinking....The local assoc probably needs a referee...wonder what nights it is.

**yungatart** · 17th June 2006, 11:14

Go for it, its very rewarding. If I could fit it in then so can you! BTW - I knew nothing about any of those sports - not into sport at all really but the kids never knew that.

**Brett** · 17th June 2006, 11:53

Originally Posted by Finn

It's not a rant and you're just touching the surface. My lady has been here for just over 2 years and she wants to right a book.

NZ is a social experiment gone horribly wrong. You just can't take the place seriously. Just try to have some fun and don't pay tax if you can. It helps.

Firsly, it is scarey how many times i find myself to be thinking the same way you do my capitalist friend.

PF - I come from that close neighbour country next door to Zim, and can say that of the people that have come over, there does seem to be a difference in...respect i suppose i would call it. Respect for people older than you in particular.

I have come into this thread far too late in the game to be truly up to play on what has been said, however i feel that you cant just blame the government or the parents...tho i am sure the world would be a much brighter place the day Aunti Helen suffered spontaneous human combustion.

The parents of a lot of the delinquent kids out there causing strife are themselves products of a FAR to liberal , left wing government. There is a reason that the saying "delinquents bread delinquents" exists...and it is true. When society has the very foundations and values we go by eroded away by media/government statutes and policies (for a recent example take the prostitution bill) it becomes increasingly hard for parents.

Us as adults (something i still struggle to get myself to accept) need to stop being so judgemental on the younsters out there, and try be more proactive in how we work along side them. A word said in honesty and love is going to be sooo much more effective than a word yelled in anger.
It is possible to raise and discipline children, showing them that what they have done is stupid or wrong while still helping to build their self esteem and image. This needs to happen in the home. It starts by how children are allowed to talk to and treat their parents, grandparents and siblings. You are not going to generally dissobey, dissrespect or hurt those that you have a deep respect for, especially when you know that they have a deep love and care for you and your welfare.

In the street when offences, such as violent offences are perpetrated, they need to be dealt with efficiently and hard enough to make a point. Murder, for example SHOULD NOT equate 10 years jail, sometimes out in 5 or 6.

The government could most certainly help by helping lower socio economic families find their OWN way to their feet, perhaps with grants for small business, lower tax rates, or tax rates that promote people actually going out and working for a living.
People on the benefit should still be put into work, such as for the government doing social work so that here is no such thing as a free handout. It is time to rid our selves of our dole bludging, community who are unable to help themselves. In this way the benefit could actually turn into a product government asset...but these dumb shits cant think of that.
Perfect example that i heard this week on Newztalk ZB (why the hell i was listening i dont know...tool album had finished

) was with regard to the power outages in the south ,and the large number of people without services to even have a shower or make a cup of tea. One guy rang up, sugested as an idea that the local authorities and the goverment could put a little bit of cash into their people, and purcahse and distribute a few generators so that people could have a warm meal, perhaps a warm shower and a hot coffee. These generators can be purchased via china for very little money.
However the answer was simple...there is no money to buy them.
Family LIfe then sent in a fax with some figuers on it in response to someone from government i think it was stating that there was no money for the generators, and one of these stats was that NZ has just donated 7.5million dollars to international abortion! How the fuck do they justify that?????
A perfect example of how money could be spent looking after our own, yet we sink it into stupid things.

I have strayed form my point...Simply, parents can love and care for their children, raising respectable citizens with strong moral fibre who are productive to society, and still discipline them and punish them.

**Winston001** · 17th June 2006, 21:03

Originally Posted by Jim2

So a small percentage of parents absolutely suck at parenting, unlike the vast majority who only suck sometimes?

Once again, I'm tired of seeing a minority held up as representative of parenting in general. All those other people you talk about ARE responsible for raising your kids. You can't do it alone.

Yes. It takes a village to raise a child. Trite, unfashionable as it may be, its true.

But at the moment it seems to me that every deadbeat parent has an excuse, or is excused. It isn't their fault, its our fault because they are unemployed, or can't read well, or do drugs, alcohol etc. Bad parents don't reap any consequences - but the rest of us have to pick up the pieces.

Of course most parents do a good job. If it were otherwise, human society would have crumbled millennia ago. There have always been those on the edge. However there is less reason for the edge to exist today (with education, good nutrition, health care) so it is a puzzle as to why we have street kids etc at all.

**slowpoke** · 18th June 2006, 17:20

Originally Posted by oldrider

The Socialist State believes the child belongs to it. (Current NZ government)
They make laws and rules that usurp the parental authority and disenfranchise the parents of any element of control or influence.

I disagree with this I'm afraid. I don't think that any government minister seriously believes they own anybodies children. I just think they are locked into fighting SYMPTOMS rather than CAUSES. They seem to be trying to protect the rights of people who are unable to protect themselves, but they are just going about it in a theoretical manner rather than a realistic one.
Even with the current regime in place do parents seriously have no "element of control or influence" over their children? I think they still have a HUGE amount of control and influence and are still the major role models in a childs life.
It's easy to point the finger at some vague shadowy government ministry but realistically we should be looking at ourselves first and foremost. We are the ones caught up in a materialistic mindset, putting work (money) before family, solving problems with violence, lacking respect for others, and putting the rights of self before the rights of society etc etc.

**oldrider** · 18th June 2006, 17:33

Originally Posted by slowpoke

I disagree with this I'm afraid. I don't think that any government minister seriously believes they own anybodies children. I just think they are locked into fighting SYMPTOMS rather than CAUSES. They seem to be trying to protect the rights of people who are unable to protect themselves, but they are just going about it in a theoretical manner rather than a realistic one.
Even with the current regime in place do parents seriously have no "element of control or influence" over their children? I think they still have a HUGE amount of control and influence and are still the major role models in a childs life.
It's easy to point the finger at some vague shadowy government ministry but realistically we should be looking at ourselves first and foremost. We are the ones caught up in a materialistic mindset, putting work (money) before family, solving problems with violence, lacking respect for others, and putting the rights of self before the rights of society etc etc.

I began life thinking I was a Socialist but life has taught me just how unrealistic their theories and doctrines are.
A friend my own age and similar background remarked to me not long ago that it seems "the older we get the more right wing we become!" Says it all really.
The shadowy theorists of which you speak are not imaginary, they are so real and stand up for everything except accountability.

Cheers John.

**MSTRS:Me** · 18th June 2006, 18:40

Originally Posted by oldrider

I began life thinking I was a Socialist but life has taught me just how unrealistic their theories and doctrines are.
A friend my own age and similar background remarked to me not long ago that it seems "the older we get the more right wing we become!" Says it all really.
The shadowy theorists of which you speak are not imaginary, they are so real and stand up for everything except accountability.

Cheers John.

You are right on the money.....these 'great experimenters' have a theory on everything and how they know best on our behalf. When a situation turns tits-up, where are they and their theories?? Running and ducking for cover, and pinning the blame on someone else?? You bet they are...
I wonder if they theorise on their chances of surviving a 9mm haemmorage?

Al · 18th June 2006, 20:11

Originally Posted by Sniper
Ahh, but you forget what my father and my uncles fought for before it was Southern and Northern Rodesia.........

What happened to South West Africa?

South West Africa / Angola was where I spent 18 months of my life as a Ratel commander in 61 Mech Batallion!
Then it became fashionable for the following intakes to say they served in "NAM" (Namibia)... f'king arseholes!

Al

**slowpoke** · 18th June 2006, 20:52

Originally Posted by Jim2

So a small percentage of parents absolutely suck at parenting, unlike the vast majority who only suck sometimes?

Once again, I'm tired of seeing a minority held up as representative of parenting in general. All those other people you talk about ARE responsible for raising your kids. You can't do it alone. It is your responsibility in fact to make sure that they are capable of relating to society in general and you can't do that by isolating your kids and insisting that no one else they come in contact with has any input into the person they become. That is why New Zealanders prefer to buy a ticket on Air New Zealand to get to Australia instead of building hteir own damn plane.

I don't understand why it is that 1 parent in 100 makes a public and heinous criminal mistake, so therefore parenting in general must be examined closely. Or a mid-teens kid does something completely at odds with their upbringing so the parents are completely to blame, despite it being the one time little Johnny ever did anything dumb. Of course we're all perfect and never did anything dumb as teenagers, like getting raging drunk and then vomiting all over your (now ex) girlfriend at a school ball, or putting the car in 4th instead of reverse and gentling nudging the car in front instead of reversing out of the park the first time you are allowed out in the car by yourself. Or completely NOT THINKING and chucking a desk out of a window at school and breaking someone's arm. No we're all perfect. And it was all our parent's fault anyway because they did a shit job of raising us.

It's the same mindset that sees a bloke wheelying down the motorway so ALL motorcyclists are temporary New Zealanders.

No one celebrates anything that people achieve anymore, especially when it comes to a community based activity like parenting.

Yep, there's no news like bad news to make a headline eh? Sensational reporting sells newspapers and fills the airwaves as many a distorted motorcycling story proves. How much of what we are talking about is about media generated perceptions rather than a fair reflection of the truth?
No doubt our parents said the same things about "US" as we are now saying about the youth of today, and our parents' to parents probably said the same again, ad infinitum.....
It's impossible to measure but have things really gotten worse...or is it just different?

**Big Dave** · 18th June 2006, 21:37

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Yep, there's no news like bad news to make a headline eh?

Absolutely.
Spurning television and the e media is a great start for a happier life.

**Sniper** · 18th June 2006, 21:49

Originally Posted by Al

South West Africa / Angola was where I spent 18 months of my life as a Ratel commander in 61 Mech Batallion!
Then it became fashionable for the following intakes to say they served in "NAM" (Namibia)... f'king arseholes!

Al

Dad said the same thing. He and my uncles were in th recce's. You will know who they are wont you

**scumdog** · 18th June 2006, 22:29

Originally Posted by terbang

And simplisticly I could leave my totally destroyed smoking wreck of a bike that I just binned on the side of the road and tell those that have offered me a lift in their car that they are wrong because they dont drive it like I did my bike..

But placidfemme was not doing that I feel - she was commenting that we were not riding our bike very well in some aspects - and you were saying "shut up, you fell off yours and wrecked it, didn't you"

**Squeak the Rat** · 19th June 2006, 08:59

I still think kids should have to WALK to school if within 5 kilometres. Teaches responsibility, combats obesity, reduces traffic congestion.

The trouble is these days is if your kid gets bullied then you can't do anything about it......