Visible atmosheric pollution actually cools the earth.Originally Posted by terbang
When the north american airline industry was grounded after 911, there was a measured increase in temperature
Forum whore
Visible atmosheric pollution actually cools the earth.
When the north american airline industry was grounded after 911, there was a measured increase in temperature
One hell of a ride.
Science and scientists be damned.
I KNOW what I have seen and my skin has felt.
Go to a high point in Sydney after an easterly has been blowing for 3 days and see the vile brown column that rises to the stars and causes respiratory distress in the infirmed and the eyes to burn of the healthy and you know that it's not right.
Stay in that same place in the sun for an hour and your skin burns and blisters and I KNOW that is not right.
Those with their heads stuck in the sand are going to either drown when the water rises or get really sunburned arses if it doesn't and I don't need a thermometer stuck in it to know there is some bad shit going on.
Forum whore
Some perspective of where the global climat has been (and we weren't around to blame for it):
Since the 1960s, it has been hypothesized that the Earth's continents were subjected to severe glacial action between about 750 million and 580 million years ago, so much so that the period is named the Cryogenian Period. Later, paleontologist W. Brian Harland pointed out that glacial till deposits of this period can be found on all continents, and first proposed that the Earth must have been in an ice age at this time. The problem is that the evidence-bearing deposits are found on all continents; but even during the worst of the ice age just past, no evidence of ice has been found in equatorial continents except on the higher parts of the highest mountain ranges. The then-new theory of plate tectonics made the oddly placed glacial discontinuities and deposits of glacial till even more enigmatic: studies of the magnetic orientations of the rocks of the late Proterozoic period showed that the continents were clustered around the equator during at least the start of the corresponding time around 750 mya— in one of the earliest of the configurations known as supercontinents. This equatorial clustering and collision of continents about 750 mya (million years ago) has been named Rodinia; it being near the equator, rather than near the poles as might have been expected, taken together with thermal evidence of a severe ice age 750 to 635 mya (the dating suggested by the widespread geologic deposits) is what has led to the Snowball Earth theory.
The Snowball Earth theory argues from the documented locations of glacial till dropped by these glaciers, to suggest that theEarth must have completely frozen over. The mechanism by which it did so is still mysterious. One suggestion is that normally, as the ice spread, it would cover some of the land, and so slow the carbon dioxide absorption, and so increase the greenhouse effect, as volcanoes continue to emit carbon dioxide, and the ice spread would stop; but with all the continents clustered along the equator, this would not happen until the freezing process had run away. Once frozen, the condition would tend to stabilize: a frozen earth has a high albedo, reflecting more of the sun's radiation, and a frozen earth, with reduced evaporation, has a very dry atmosphere, water vapor being one of the greenhouse gases. A "Snowball Earth" would have a blindingly clear blue sky above its reflective surface.
The mechanism by which the Earth would thaw — as it must have done if it froze—would leave distinctive traces, which are the subject of ongoing research.
White Earth is a name given to a theoretical equilibrium found in computer climate simulations whereby the model Earth undergoes complete glaciation. While this seems to have originally been considered a degenerate case, by the time James Gleick wrote his history of chaos theory Chaos: Making A New Science, it was not dismissed in his book but simply restated as something that probably just had not happened yet. The current evidence for the Snowball Earth would seem to back that theory and its computer models.
And:
Antarctica's last forest provides clues to climate change
The microscopic remains of an Antarctic forest more than 30 million years old was providing important information about global climate operation, the Minister for Industry, Science and Resources, Senator Nick Minchin announced today.
Senator Minchin said Australian scientists participating in the international Ocean Drilling Program (ODP) have dated the time when the Antarctic changed from a continent covered by vegetation to a frozen land.
Senator Minchin explained spores and pollen fossils trapped in submerged sediment buried deep beneath the polar sea provided evidence of the once cool-temperature rainforest that last covered the continent between 34 and 37 million years ago.
The Antarctic study helps scientists understand why the ice sheet formed and how the global climate operates.
"Pinpointing the time when Antarctica was first covered by an ice sheet helps scientists understand more about the fluctuations of the global climate," Senator Minchin said.
"The findings provide further evidence of the influences the oceans south of Australia have on global climate fluctuations."
Senator Minchin said the expedition uncovered spores which indicated vegetation that grew in the coastal plains of Antarctica was akin to the edges of cool-temperate rainforest now found in the highlands of Tasmania.
Although not tall, the stunted scrub of Antarctica's last forest would have been home to a variety of plants including insect-eating plants ('sundew'), and pine trees growing to approximately three metres high.
Samples revealed remnants of Southern Beech (Nothofagus). These are found occurring naturally in Tasmania, New Zealand and New Caledonia, evidence that these islands once joined Antarctica in the super-continent of Gondwana. Collected along with the spores were pebbles dropped from the earliest Antarctic icebergs.
Senator Minchin said the ODP had conducted exhaustive geological detective work to uncover what happened tens of millions of years ago to turn the cool-temperate Antarctic continent into a barren ice world.
"About 45 million years ago, Australia started to move northward away from Antarctica at a rate of approximately five centimetres per year," he said.
"By 30 million years ago, the Tasmanian land bridge had separated from Antarctica, allowing cold currents to circulate around Antarctica and cutting it off from the warm currents flowing south from the tropics.
"This created perfect conditions for ice sheets to form. By 15 million years ago most of Antarctica was a frozen continent buried deep under ice caps and vegetation vanished, unable to survive the dramatic climate change."
Still Ridin'
Actually, I have a pretty good chance of proving that the temperature rise was due to all the Yank business folk getting steamed up about not being able to fly business class to their meetings and the generally riled-up state of the US population post-Sept-11.
RESEARCH FUNDS NEEDED, NOW!
Motorbike Camping for the win!
A wizard did it!
This is all to be expected. The near-unaminity in the scientific community has at last been partially translated into political will.
Where to go from here is more interesting. Expect to see a very heavy focus on industrial-based solutions, ie. heavy federal funding for new carbon-reducing technologies.
This expectation is based on the intractable law that the state-capital sector will always leverage the market in favour of increased corporate subsidisation. The alternative, reduced and/or controlled consumption, is anathema for circular reasons.
Eat the riches! Eat your money! The revolution will be DELICIOUS!!!
I'ma get medieval on your ass!
Agreed. As for polarity reversal - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ield_flip.html
We simply don't know whether global warming is occuring or not. Geologic time-scales are involved and 100 years isn't even a blip. Recommend Jantar's post near the start of the thread for its rational view.
There are two issues:
1. The speed of change. The average temperature seems to be increasing at more than the historical geological rate. We are getting hotter much faster than expected. However there is recent research using rock strata from Antarctica which shows that there have been sudden (100 years) dramatic climate changes in the past.
Tipping points have been reached and a cascade of events in the atmosphere has led to sudden heating/cooling. However these can be temporary and trend back to the norm. In the meantime - sell your beachfront crib.
2. Man is the most corrosive and destructive force on the face of the planet. About the only greater force would be a decent sized meteor strike.
So while the climate change people are mis-guided, their objective is still worthy. Stop stripping forests, burning hydrocarbons, and dumping waste, and extinguishing species. Obviously this can't happen overnight, but we already have the technology and energy to live abundant lives without harming the environment.
Rant over.
Still Ridin'
I do not doubt that we have pollution problems and that our actions are contributing to ozone depletion (most CFCs are manmade, we can't blame Gaia for that one) and that we are having an impact on the planets ecosystems and weather.
What I do not believe is that the scientists can make any form of creditable prognosis - they can't predict what will happen to the weather tomorrow, let alone 50 to 100 years down the line.
They also cannot possibly know how much of the actual weather patterns is attributable to us and how much to natural cycles and random fluctuations. Increased UV from the depleted ozone layer and choking smog is demonstrable, "weird weather" is not.
Motorbike Camping for the win!
Forum whore
Why does everyone want no change.1. The speed of change. The average temperature seems to be increasing at more than the historical geological rate. We are getting hotter much faster than expected. However there is recent research using rock strata from Antarctica which shows that there have been sudden (100 years) dramatic climate changes in the past.
Tipping points have been reached and a cascade of events in the atmosphere has led to sudden heating/cooling. However these can be temporary and trend back to the norm. In the meantime - sell your beachfront crib.
2. Man is the most corrosive and destructive force on the face of the planet. About the only greater force would be a decent sized meteor strike.
So while the climate change people are mis-guided, their objective is still worthy. Stop stripping forests, burning hydrocarbons, and dumping waste, and extinguishing species. Obviously this can't happen overnight, but we already have the technology and energy to live abundant lives without harming the environment.
Rant over.
Nature thrives on change...the greatest boosts to evolutionary development were the chicxulub meteor event,the deccan and snake river lava floods,the yellowstone eruption and the many ice-ages
Still Ridin'
Yeah, and many of the great changes resulted in an evolutionary shift to a new dominant species - ask the dinosaurs what they think of "change"
Nature thrives. Individual species tend to get wiped out.
Motorbike Camping for the win!
Forum whore
I asked a dinosaur that was sitting on my TV antenna;she said "it gives you wings"Yeah, and many of the great changes resulted in an evolutionary shift to a new dominant species - ask the dinosaurs what they think of "change"
Nature thrives. Individual species tend to get wiped out.
One hell of a ride.
Sure - we'd all welcome another ice age or endless deserts or something.
I'm so OVER lush and green and beautiful and habitable.
I don't think the sky is falling either. I'm just trying to use less Carbon fuel - (ride a motorbike) and be aware of CFC's and stuff.
Forum whore
You make the mistake of thinking Gaia's running things for mankind's benefit
And be honest - you ride a bike because you love it.
If you were concerned about using fuel you'd pedal
Forum whore
Your musings, whether accurate or not, pale into insignificance when put up against the extreme weather and environmental patterns this planet has experienced in times gone by. Mega volcanoes, mega hurricanes, mega floods - the evidence of events of catastrophic proportions dot this planet - There are forces much more powerful at stake than any input us insignificant humans can effect on this planet.
One hell of a ride.
More a fringe benefit - and it is well down the list of considerations - but it IS one of them.
Where possible/viable I do actually ride a quite nice mountain bike.
Mostly and for sport, I travel much further than pedal power allows.
Degrees innit.
One hell of a ride.
Sure - but we shouldn't be giving potential cataclysm a possible hand.
The answer is more people on more motorcycles.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks