Serious advice please

[FROSTY:Me]

Im sitting on the fence trying to decide what the next step is with my racing.
In a nutshell Its a decision between sticking with F3 or making the jump to a 600.
The decision is strictly financial --Its going to cost me just as much to get the sv a potential NATIONAL level race winner as to buy a one year old 600 race bike with all the gear to race it.
PLEASE could you folk offer your SERIOUS advise
-PLEASE--no spam

[SwanTiger]

I'm too un-educated to give you a worth while piece of advice, but will offer you this - You're only going to live once.

[Sparky Bills]

600's are great fun, but a race winning 600 isnt standard at all!
Needs good tyres all the time, exhaust, shocks and more.
Spare rims, with wets. Sponsers is a must really.

On the good side, they are great fun to ride and and the class is watched by many people.
Im getting the feeling that you want to move to a 600, but just need a little push, to get you there.

Well consider this a big nudge! Go for it mate!

[justsomeguy]

If it's purely financial - won't a national race winning F3 bike be a LOT cheaper than a national race winning F2 bike??

Unless as Sparky says you have reliable sponsors, then I'm sure you'll be happier fighting Sam Smith and good ol' Two Smoker for F2 podiums.

[FROSTY:Me]

nope basicly Im looking at a couple of 600 options which would be not quite top NZ level bikes but very close.
To do my motor on the sv is gonna cost me 10k
I figure as it is the SV is a club level race winner so I could sell it to someone wanting to take the next step in F3

[sugilite:Me]

Your right It would cost a lot of money to build up an SV to nats winning tune, prob more than a 600!
I say go for a well set up one year old 600. I reckon you are ready to step up to that class. The tyre bill will be a little higher, but that will be a well spent invesment considering all the extra competition you will have. You will gain skills faster in the 600 class. You also have the added bonus of entering in superbike class should you choose to do so.

[k14]

Yeah its a tough call. The 600 is a totally new kettle of fish. The 600 class is miles ahead of F3 in terms of numbers and competition so thats a big positive. Its a really hard call as to which class would cost more to run. I'd say it would be pretty close in monetary terms too.

I'd say the 600 would be the better class in the long term. The level of rider on average is alot higher than in F3 so you get a good idea of where you stand as a racer. The bikes are all pretty similar for their respective years as opposed to F3 where there are so many different bikes in different levels of tune that you don't really know where you are in terms of rider skill.

Thats my 2c anyway.

[slowpoke]

Im sitting on the fence trying to decide what the next step is with my racing.
In a nutshell Its a decision between sticking with F3 or making the jump to a 600.
The decision is strictly financial --Its going to cost me just as much to get the sv a potential NATIONAL level race winner as to buy a one year old 600 race bike with all the gear to race it.
PLEASE could you folk offer your SERIOUS advise
-PLEASE--no spam

Why are you asking us Frosty?
Sorry, not giving you any attitude mate, but you've just stated the costs are the same so it comes down to what YOU want to do. Just the fact you are seriously looking at the 600 option shows a desire to go that way so just do it, scratch the damn itch.
Do you want to look back in how ever many years time and ask yourself how you would have gone on a 600 or do you want to look back and know that you gave it a go?

Note: why do these decisions always seem so simple when you're talking about someone elses situation rather than your own....?

[slowpoke]

Yeah its a tough call.......

.....Thats my 2c anyway.

Sorry people, nothing to do with Frosty's dilemna but I just noticed K14's bikes and I'm wondering what manner of bastardry has been performed to get 48hp out of a CB125. The poor wee mutant thing must have the life expectancy of a fart in a fan factory.....(the bike I mean, not K14)

[Quasievil]

Stick in F3 mate, I aint beat ya yet.

[justsomeguy]

Its a really hard call as to which class would cost more to run. I'd say it would be pretty close in monetary terms too.

Can you please explain? I thought F3 would be considerably cheaper.

[sAsLEX]

Sorry people, nothing to do with Frosty's dilemna but I just noticed K14's bikes and I'm wondering what manner of bastardry has been performed to get 48hp out of a CB125. The poor wee mutant thing must have the life expectancy of a fart in a fan factory.....(the bike I mean, not K14)

it uses a custom tuning technique he got from Ivan I think!

I would say move to 600's better outlook for sponsership with it actually getting tv coverage for the streets and the some of the other rounds

[Mental Trousers]

How long have you been racing F3? Time for a change isn't it? Take the next step and go to a higher class. F2 is way more competitive than F3 so your riding and knowledge etc will improve way more than staying in F3

[Maido]

Have you read Shauns thread about a $6000 ride?????!!!!!!!!!! this is definately the cheapest option!!!!!!!

Firstly how serious are you, are you going to pedal at nationals or be a club day world champion?
If national level
Having ridden both I think the 600 is the way to go for several reasons, Cost would be approximately the same but i think costs aren't actually a factor especially if you want to win,
for the average rider you are never going to win a national title in either class on the skin of your pants, you must be prepared to put alot of money into a national campaign. I don't think either Craig sherriffs nor terry fitzgerald ever won on a shoe string budget.
A one year old (possibly even two year old ) 600 is just as capable of winning as a new old bike in the right hands.
I think it is an advantage that 600 is pretty much a world wide class (all be it different regs for different countries) if not the most popular and accessible class worldwide, (I would say at least 98% of countries who race bikes have a 600 class, as opposed to a very small number of f3 classes) so potential sponsors will be much more aware of your class. (you can tell them it is like they guys on the telly!!!) also if you have a chance to head over seas to race you are guarenteed to have a 600 class. also, guys don't come from over seas to nz to ride f3.
The 600 is only getting bigger at nz national level, f3 is staying the same and sometimes declining.
I have to word this next one carefully, i don't want to stand on toes!!!
as k14 said, I think the "overall" standard in the 600 class in higher than F3, and by saying this I mean no disrespect to f3 at all there are very very good riders in that class ( i think that fitzgerald, eason etc would be at the pointy end in any class) but there is a greater number of skilled riders per capita per class, so you have alot more guys to guage yourself and learn off.
Another thing I have noticed is that when you bin a 600 it can tend to destroy it self alot of the time due to the increased inertia from the corner speed vs the weight of the bike, a lighter f3 bike will usually slide on the top where a heavy 600 will dig in and flip, trust me on that one!!
Powerwise the 600 power is not hard to handle and isn't really scary if you are a competent rider, try and ride one before you make your mind up, they tend to move around a wee bit but that is part of it.
this is just my two cents, do what you want to do, not what people in the forum want you to do. but get a 600!!!

Chicks dig 600's!!

if you have anything specif you want to know ask away.

[gpercivl]

Take the plunge and get into 600's you can blow me away then!

But seriously 600's are much more of a challenge to ride than the F3 bikes...on the 400 or 450 you could pretty much open the throttle full bore mid corner without getting unstuck but on the 600 you really do risk high-side country...I love it heaps more than the 400's even with being a relatively crap rider.

As for the competition...in 2004 I finished 8th (even missed one race due to engine trouble) in the F3 Nationals whereas this year on arguably one of the fastest 600's in the country (passed Stroud and caught Shirriffs in a straight line at Manfeild & Puke etc.) I finished 26th in the 600 class.

But I've learnt a heap about bike set up and pushing hard into corners this year which has made it all worthwhile.

I bought the R6 new and did all the engine work myself with dyno-tuning at AMPS and Henderson MC and am still paying for the bike...cost me about 20K to set up even with lots of help from Yamaha and Pirelli.

So getting a well-set up 600 one year old is a better way to go. In fact Derek Hill is selling his 05 R6 right now as he wants to move to the 06 model. He's been up front in F3 for a number of years now and he's moving to the 600's because the enjoyment factor is so much more fun.

As an example I had the R6 crossed up under power coming out of turn 1 at Manfeild last weekend in the rain and boy it was so much fun and so controllable once you get use to it.

Up to you Frosty...come out and play with me again :-)