Death Penalty...

**98tls** · 13th July 2006, 12:26

Originally Posted by Jim2

Peter Ellis didn't shoot anyone. He's a victim of the myth that all homosexual men are paedophiles.

I've yet to hear a decent explanation of why David Bain was seen delivering newspapers when he was supposed to be shooting his family. The point is never debated, the witness who saw him is dead, and the Police just sneer and curl their lip when it's brought up.

The doco i saw said he delivered said papers early that morning and they had wittnesses to that..no idea myself just saying what the doco said.

**James Deuce** · 13th July 2006, 12:26

Originally Posted by Two Smoker

But what if it was proved beyond a doubt that they were the murderers etc...

I agree i dont think either of these people should have been sentenced to death had it been a possibility...

You can't discuss what ifs. It has to be cold hard facts. The prosecution has to be absolutely correct in its presentation of the case. The defence must have enough nouse to either show innocence or create doubt in the Jury's mind.

The judge must be objective.

Can you see why the Death Sentence was dropped yet?

**Lou Girardin** · 13th July 2006, 12:27

Originally Posted by Skunk

Three strikes rule.

1st offence: Normal sentence
2nd offence: 20 years hard labour
3rd offence: Tuff

Including traffic?

**The_Dover** · 13th July 2006, 12:28

What we need is a good hard labour system. Fix my asphalt beearch.

As for the debate over incarcerating or executing an innocent man? Whats worse? Getting it over and done with or being locked up with the dreggs of society for the rest of your days?

"Oh, you finally found me innocent at my fifth attempt at an appeal?"

"No, don't worry, I'm not bitter about 30 years being Bubba's pincushion and I'm sure I'll go straight back to be a functional and happy member of society"

**placidfemme** · 13th July 2006, 12:29

Originally Posted by yungatart

At least if you lock them up and then they are proved innocent you can let them out again.... try doing that when they've been fried..

Look at this way...

Person A is accused of (Insert crime here... murder... rape... whatever), they are found guilty by the court, and given say... 20 years jail time. After spending say... 10 years behind bars and something new pops up, and they are set free because now they are "innocent".

Person A's life is ruined already. Being proven innocent doesn't stop people from judging you anyway (main reason why they use name suppression).

If I knew Person A and they went to jail and were released, I know in the back of my head I'd always "wonder" about them, and therefore being freed doesn't always make things any better.

*is the pro death penalty side of me talking now*

**yungatart** · 13th July 2006, 12:34

Originally Posted by placidfemme

Look at this way...

Person A's life is ruined already. Being proven innocent doesn't stop people from judging you anyway (main reason why they use name suppression).

If I knew Person A and they went to jail and were released, I know in the back of my head I'd always "wonder" about them, and therefore being freed doesn't always make things any better.

So rather than imprison them and have to face the consequences of our mistake when they are found innocent , we should just put them to death... easier all round, really, isn't it?

**DMNTD:Me** · 13th July 2006, 12:35

OK...put it this way....someone touches my kids,family,partner or friends I'd kill them...Fact,end of story.

Before anyone asks....no I wouldn't on suspition only...just a severe hiding

**Lou Girardin** · 13th July 2006, 12:35

Originally Posted by Jim2

You can't discuss what ifs. It has to be cold hard facts. The prosecution has to be absolutely correct in its presentation of the case. The defence must have enough nouse to either show innocence or create doubt in the Jury's mind.

The judge must be objective.

Can you see why the Death Sentence was dropped yet?

A good reason to get away from the adversarial justice system.

**Lou Girardin** · 13th July 2006, 12:36

Originally Posted by The_Dover

As for the debate over incarcerating or executing an innocent man? Whats worse? Getting it over and done with or being locked up with the dreggs of society for the rest of your days?

Unless you happen to be the innocent man. How do you think it'd feel, to die for something you didn't do?

**James Deuce** · 13th July 2006, 12:36

Originally Posted by placidfemme

Look at this way...

Person A is accused of (Insert crime here... murder... rape... whatever), they are found guilty by the court, and given say... 20 years jail time. After spending say... 10 years behind bars and something new pops up, and they are set free because now they are "innocent".

Person A's life is ruined already. Being proven innocent doesn't stop people from judging you anyway (main reason why they use name suppression).

If I knew Person A and they went to jail and were released, I know in the back of my head I'd always "wonder" about them, and therefore being freed doesn't always make things any better.

*is the pro death penalty side of me talking now*

So instead of ruining their life you take it off them altogether. Yeah that makes it better.

**placidfemme** · 13th July 2006, 12:39

Originally Posted by yungatart

So rather than imprison them and have to face the consequences of our mistake when they are found innocent , we should just put them to death... easier all round, really, isn't it?

I'm just saying either way its not really that "good" for them. They loose either way.

But millions of people have been killed over the centuries who were actually innocent, but as mentioned before, innocents dies all the time for the "greater good".

No one is perfect and no countries laws are perfect either. But I think a token innocent is worth it if it means many more bad guys pay for their crimes (I don't know the figures, but based on what has been said in this thread alone, there are 3 debatable cases of innocence... 3 compared to what? Compared to hundreds. Such a small percentage).

And I also believe that if they bring in the death sentance crime will drop. Criminals here think of jail as "oh good I get to see the rest of my family and friends". Not much fear of the law system. But tell them they can do that same crime and now face death.... they WILL think twice about it.

**98tls** · 13th July 2006, 12:39

Originally Posted by yungatart

At least if you lock them up and then they are proved innocent you can let them out again.... try doing that when they've been fried..

i reckon after 20 years in jail for nothing you would be wishing they had fried you anyways................what are you going to say when your finally released "cheers mate no worries shit happens" Fuck that i would rather take my chances on an after life thanks.

**placidfemme** · 13th July 2006, 12:40

Originally Posted by Jim2

So instead of ruining their life you take it off them altogether. Yeah that makes it better.

Well honestly I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life in prison

**muzz** · 13th July 2006, 12:40

[QUOTE="Oh, you finally found me innocent at my fifth attempt at an appeal?"

"No, don't worry, I'm not bitter about 30 years being Bubba's pincushion and I'm sure I'll go straight back to be a functional and happy member of society"[/QUOTE]

Thats the problem with long stays in institutions you become what you are surrounded by. Same with family values you become what you are brought up with. Brack the cycle is hard for so many people.

**James Deuce** · 13th July 2006, 12:41

Originally Posted by placidfemme

IAnd I also believe that if they bring in the death sentance crime will drop. Criminals here think of jail as "oh good I get to see the rest of my family and friends". Not much fear of the law system. But tell them they can do that same crime and now face death.... they WILL think twice about it.

If the death sentence is such a deterrent, why does Washington DC have a higher murder rate than Baghdad?