Death Penalty...

[SPORK]

And those in favour of the death penalty will pay for the myriad of appeals etc out of their own pockets....

Now now, don't get into that, they're talking to us in simple terms. And of COURSE they know if someone's guilty or not, and of COURSE they'll never execute an innocent person!

What's the worth of a human life?

[sels1]

with hundreds of years of evidence to draw on from around the world, the death penalty is anathema, based loosely on ritual human sacrifice by obscene means, which demeans all involved in it and has no place in a civilised society.
The hangmen of the UK, Australia and NZ said they were very pleased it was abolished - for good reason. It didnt deter crime, they knew innocent people were being executed and it was nearly always those from a lower strata of society who were being executed.

Dead right. Death penalty hasnt worked for thousands of years and never will.
Violence breds violence - thats been known since Biblical times. If you so called educated and law abiding people think (State sanctioned) killing is a good thing, how do you expect the weak minded "low life" in society to not think violence is the way to deal with things? Think deeper than the knee-jerk reaction!!

[Squeak the Rat]

I would hate to be tried in front of a jury. Your fate in the hands of 12(?) people who were too stupid to be able to get off jury service.....


(yeah yeah most of us have done it once to see what it's like, but after that most of us then get the boss to write a letter and all is good)....

[scumdog]

how do you expect the weak minded "low life" in society to not think violence is the way to deal with things? Think deeper than the knee-jerk reaction!!

For a start "low life" society does not 'think' - it reacts and often with violence.

What society has improved with the cancelation of the death penalty??

[mstriumph]

So we pay (as tax payers) for the prisons to be built and pay for them to be staffed. So they (as prisoners) pay for there food, clothing etc.
Set prisons up to be more self sufficient and get these barstards working and not laying around all day. Going to prison you sould forfiet your rights and do hard labour to pay for your crime and support the system.

I rather like this idea ........ 'user pays'

I'd like it taken further - for crimes for which the death penalty would be appropriate, let's give them a 'conditional' prison sentence .....

'conditions' being that, as long as the miscreant, his family, supporters or various hangers-on can come up with the nearly-$100,00 pa [in advance] it now costs the taxpayer to maintain him/her in prison .. well, s/he gets to live
BUT THE MINUTE THE VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS RUN OUT, OFF WITH HIS/HER HEAD [or whatever]
-------- the idea needs some work, sure, but i'm keen on the concept?

[scumdog]

I rather like this idea ........ 'user pays'

I'd like it taken further - for crimes for which the death penalty would be appropriate, let's give them a 'conditional' prison sentence .....

'conditions' being that, as long as the miscreant, his family, supporters or various hangers-on can come up with the nearly-$100,00 pa [in advance] it now costs the taxpayer to maintain him/her in prison .. well, s/he gets to live
BUT THE MINUTE THE VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS RUN OUT, OFF WITH HIS/HER HEAD [or whatever]
-------- the idea needs some work, sure, but i'm keen on the concept?

Mwahahahah! Like that's going to work!
This government PAYS people outside prison to sit on their lazy fat arses, why should it be any different inside??
Sorry if it sounds sarcastic.

[bert_is_evil]

Tougher sentencing doesn't stop people committing crimes, because the people who commit this type of crime are too irrational/stupid to consider the consequences if they get caught and don't think they will ever get caught any way.

On the other hand I would like nothing more than to see the evil scum that beat the crap out of me totally unprovoked and left me lying bleeding, unconscious and in need of surgery on the footpath the week before xmas, and is still walking around free because they decided not to bother going to court, sizzling away in a chair....

[Lias]

As above I'm firmly in favour of the death penalty, but also in favour of hard labour. ALL prisoners who commit a crime serious enough to deserve jailtime should get cheap food(maybe not the literal bread and water, but subsistence level food only), and do hard labour. All the robbers, burglars , car thiefs (thieving a bike is a death penalty offense for sure), little old lady bashers, etc send em all to labour camps.

Think of all the delays we have going on with roadworks funding delays and stuff, put the freaking lot of them out their with chains, shovels, and guards with shotguns. No need for permanent prisons, just tent and razorwire detention camps near the area they are working and a few trucks to move em around. Goverment could save a fortune..

No TV's, no gym, no weights, no playstations, no luxuries, not a goddamn thing. We all like to break the rules sometime or other, but their are certain rules that if you break, you loose the right to be a part of society either temporarily (prison camp) or permanently (death penalty).

We also need to relax our gun control laws, and legalise self defence beyond our pathetic "reasonable force" defence. If someone is on your property threatening your family or stealing your stuff you should be allowed to shoot em dead or let your dogs rip them to shreds without being arrested for it.

I'm a firm believer in the old sign "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again."

[kiwifruit]

Yes, as long as they are actually guilty beyond any doubt.

[ManDownUnder]

No,

The state killing someone is the same action as the initial murder and is not restitutional, it's "getting even".

It's also not a disincentive to the type of crime that would warrant the penalty.

I'm all for sending the bad bastards over to White Island where they can live out there days breaking rocks for sale to earn money so they can buy food. Let them sort out the pecking order and having our maritime patrol aircraft fly by every now and then on exercise or while in that part of the world.

[muzz]

What kind of work can they do?

Waikeria = farming
Rangipo & hauto = forestry
Mt Edan used to make furniture

It would be up to the warden to assign people to different jobs the more you are trusted the better the job. eg Dont put an axe in a murders hands.
There are many factory type jobs that could be set up in prisons and they dont have to leave the prison.
The ones on lesser crimes that will be getting out and can be trusted can be taken off site and those that have a short time to go can be conditioned to the outside world again.

[ManDownUnder]

'conditions' being that, as long as the miscreant, his family, supporters or various hangers-on can come up with the nearly-$100,00 pa [in advance] it now costs the taxpayer to maintain him/her in prison .. well, s/he gets to live
BUT THE MINUTE THE VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS RUN OUT, OFF WITH HIS/HER HEAD [or whatever]
-------- the idea needs some work, sure, but i'm keen on the concept?

Na that's emotional blackmail, victimising the innocents.

[sels1]

For a start "low life" society does not 'think' - it reacts and often with violence.??

Unfortunatly every society has individuals whose abilities are little above that of animals. How we deal with them (and our animals) is a measure of our civilisation.

What society has improved with the cancelation of the death penalty

I would say all of them. And it is our responsibility to keep evolving upward...

[ManDownUnder]

What society has improved with the cancelation of the death penalty??

"Modern society". Isn't the presence of law and order (in place of dog eat dog) a step up... a substantial step up?

Which society has improved by the introduction of it?

[Edbear]

does the name Arthur Allan Thomas ring a bell ?

I know Arthur and he's a real nice guy. While I agree there are those who deserve the death penalty and in many cases the offender is beyond doubt, the Justice System is too flawed, too open to manipulation and there are always going to be cases where an innocent person is killed.

You may say that getting the wrong person accasionally is worth getting rid of the bad guys, but to me that comes under the same category as "collateral damage" and "friendly fire". If it was you, or your husband/wife/child who was innocent... or if it was you who "pressed the button" to find out later you'd killed an innocent person...?The USA is a good example of the difficulties and uncertainty in such matters.