Death Penalty...

**98tls** · 13th July 2006, 14:56

Reminds me of that Steve Earle song...Billy Austin "would you pull that switch youself sir and call yourself a better man than i am"

**Paul in NZ** · 13th July 2006, 15:10

Originally Posted by Jim2

I suppose it doesn't matter if we kill a few innocent people, just so long as we get the bad guys, eh?

Now who models their entire raison de etre for war on that premise? Some bloke from Texas isn't it?

Sorry but I disagree with you - thats pretty PC just throwing out an idea because something might happen or it's supported by the boogie man ;-)

Nah! There are cases where people cross the goddam line and I think we all know that. I'm not a cruel person but I reckon this needs some serious debate but perhaps this is the wrong forum for it..

Now back to bikes...

I just bought this cool sticker but I was under the influence at the time, now that I'm sober it does not look quite so cool - I'm confused...

**98tls** · 13th July 2006, 15:14

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

I just bought this cool sticker but I was under the influence at the time, now that I'm sober it does not look quite so cool - I'm confused...

Then its death by lethal injection for you sir

**Paul in NZ** · 13th July 2006, 15:16

Originally Posted by 98tls

Then its death by lethal injection for you sir

Nah - I'll just use it and spray the clear coat without a dust mask and die a horrible death from the fumes...

**yungatart** · 13th July 2006, 15:17

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

Sorry but I disagree with you - thats pretty PC just throwing out an idea because something might happen or it's supported by the boogie man ;-)

...

Nah, its not wrong and its not PC! How can you in all honesty say, "Its wrong to kill" as you pull the switch on someone's life for killing someone else. What makes you any different to them, other than your govt sanctioned right to rid society of the people you don't know what else to do with. Killing is wrong.. full stop.. whether state sanctioned or not makes no difference. Wrong is wrong and two wrongs never made a right!

**98tls** · 13th July 2006, 15:21

Originally Posted by yungatart

Nah, its not wrong and its not PC! How can you in all honesty say, "Its wrong to kill" as you pull the switch on someone's life for killing someone else. What makes you any different to them, other than your govt sanctioned right to rid society of the people you don't know what else to do with. Killing is wrong.. full stop.. whether state sanctioned or not makes no difference. Wrong is wrong and two wrongs never made a right!

Theres probably a few millon jews that would disagree with you there.

**ManDownUnder** · 13th July 2006, 15:26

Originally Posted by 98tls

Theres probably a few millon jews that would disagree with you there.

And sheer numbers makes it right? I recall there were a few million Germans that didn't like Jews at the time...

**yungatart** · 13th July 2006, 15:30

Originally Posted by 98tls

Theres probably a few millon jews that would disagree with you there.

There's probably a few million other people who would agree with me too....

**Paul in NZ** · 13th July 2006, 15:32

Originally Posted by yungatart

Nah, its not wrong and its not PC! How can you in all honesty say, "Its wrong to kill" as you pull the switch on someone's life for killing someone else. What makes you any different to them, other than your govt sanctioned right to rid society of the people you don't know what else to do with. Killing is wrong.. full stop.. whether state sanctioned or not makes no difference. Wrong is wrong and two wrongs never made a right!

I honestly don't know - thats my point. It's easy to say don't kill but what is the alternative that works? How can our systems be so ineffective?

It's easy to say we should not kill we must evolve to higher ideals but thats not working either.

How can the 'system' say it will rehabilitate a rapist or put a value (time served) on a crime and yet the victim is left to suffer a lifetime? Sorry, it's too damn soft....

Heres the thing - I worry that we are being led into a velvet trap of complacency by wealthy left wing liberal types aided by the free market marketeers. We are seduced with all manner of thing to give us the quick fizz required to get us up for another day of toil while they worry about the bigger things and we blindly go on while the fabric of our society falls apart and as a people we become collectively weaker and weaker.

I'm not suggesting we go back to the 1950s but my observation is that 'successful' people are tending to have fewer or no kids at all so that they can accumulate $$ and build ever bigger walls to keep out the growing under classes who have feck all except a bloody big appetite that is harder and harder to fill...

I'm sorry, I'm just not smart enough to know the answers but I'm not so damn stupid as to not recognise seriously bad behaviour as well. It's not good enough just to say that capital punishment does not work without providing an effective alternative. I wish I knew of one....

**ghost** · 13th July 2006, 15:35

Originally Posted by yungatart

Nah, its not wrong and its not PC! How can you in all honesty say, "Its wrong to kill" as you pull the switch on someone's life for killing someone else. What makes you any different to them, other than your govt sanctioned right to rid society of the people you don't know what else to do with. Killing is wrong.. full stop.. whether state sanctioned or not makes no difference. Wrong is wrong and two wrongs never made a right!

Wrong to kill? would you kill to defend your life or the life of another? (yes you would) right or wrong state sanctioned death penatly is an extention of societies right to selfdefence, that or lock them up for life. Im for frying the blatently obvious wrong-doers. I think those who support the death penalty should get a tax rebate as the cost of keeping these things alive for life is huge.

**98tls** · 13th July 2006, 15:36

not sure really....my mothers family are all from germany..my grandfather Willam Nahr told me the average German didnt care less about the jews either way and if you did and made a point of being vocal about it then you shared there fate very quickly.

**scumdog** · 13th July 2006, 15:37

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

No,

The state killing someone is the same action as the initial murder and is not restitutional, it's "getting even".

It's also not a disincentive to the type of crime that would warrant the penalty.

It's not 'getting even', it is getting rid of a problem

And it does rate as a disincentive - ALL potential punishment is a disincentive.

And I for one cringe to think Bell et al are being kept alive with taxes taken from ME!

Why can't his family work and pay for his upkeep if they want him to live?

I would rather my taxes go to hospitals, schools, Victim Support etc.

**ManDownUnder** · 13th July 2006, 15:37

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

I honestly don't know - thats my point. It's easy to say don't kill but what is the alternative that works? How can our systems be so ineffective?

Because we took our eye off keeping the kids in line, now we have to deal with fucked up adults. We're focussing on cleaning up the mess, not preventing the situation to start with.

Let's face it - I think we've all seen kids doing something and you feel like stopping them, intervening, shouting at them or giving them a quick kick in the pants.

Something that would hurt - and let them know that they don't only have to behave when parents or police are around. They're part of a society - and they're responsible to that society - just as society is responsible to them.

We forgot (or belittled) our responsibilities to the kids, and we've become their friends instead of their guides and mentors. We all need a kick in the arse from time to time.

**ManDownUnder** · 13th July 2006, 15:44

LOL - ok blow by blow...