Death Penalty...

[awesker]

Im a strong believer in an eye for an eye.

so to re-cap, cold blooded murder = death



on a different note though, I reckon that nz's laws for murder and shit are to bloody lax...

[Paul in NZ]

Well we keep coming back to calling the death sentence for some crimes barbaric? Thats not really a valid argument to me because I'm not 100% certain it is. While we may feel uncomfortable that some people in our society are prepared to execute others for certain crimes it does not really tell us much about the effectiveness of the solution. (if indeed it IS a solution at all)

If we accept that it is not in most peoples nature to kill (and thus state sanctioned execution is barbaric) then surely we have to accept that those that do so in cold blood are an abberation. Can these people be reformed? Can William Bell ever be let loose?? Personally - I say no he can't and if he did, he would need the support of services that just don't exist.

In the case of the Kahui twins, it now appears that they were definately hit. Once maybe is an accident - two babies at once?? Hmmm.. Thats not a crime of passion is it? Stepping back and looking at their families bigger situation, can we as a society allow this to continue? The 'normal' people (ie the ones that value life and contribute to the common wealth of this country) are in serious danger of being swamped by the 'outlaws'. Not in numerical terms but in the amount of resources being used to prop these people up.

I'm not sure it's working. ie - Are the bells/Edwards/Kahuis (sweeping generalisation and just as an example) existing because we do have a system? Certainly the system seems to do very little good?

My feeling is we have gotten soft and are tending towards rotten. We have high ideals and have to believe in reformation because we ourselves are very often less than perfect. However, we have forgotten that there is a very real line in the sand that once stepped over, is impossible to step back.

I think our generation is going to have to face some tough decisions and do it sooner than later. You may call me a barbarian for wanting to bring up these possibilities but every day corporations and politicians condem thousands in this country to economic death without a second thought. They denigh the elderly proper medical care thus shortening their lives - of course - thats just 'economic reality'.. Well in some cases - I think economic reality should be applied to a few murderers as well...

[ManDownUnder]

I think our generation is going to have to face some tough decisions and do it sooner than later. You may call me a barbarian for wanting to bring up these possibilities but every day corporations and politicians condem thousands in this country to economic death without a second thought. They denigh the elderly proper medical care thus shortening their lives - of course - thats just 'economic reality'.. Well in some cases - I think economic reality should be applied to a few murderers as well...

Tis a bloody good point but I'd prefer to see the economic death you mention reversed - and as a starting point I (seriously) suggest the following

1) Take money from the penal system, put it into Policing. Fence the top of the cliff, stop sending ambulances to the bottom
2) Reduce unemployment benefits to the point where it really is uncomfortable, and socially unacceptable to be a lard arse soaking the financial life from those of us that actually do earn a living.
3) After a month on the dole, put 'em on taskforce green or something - make it compulsory, and after 6 months put them through boot camp. Give 'em discipline and skills so they CAN contribute to the coffers of society - and remarkably enough - thameselves.
4) Retrain anyone on a sickness benefit that is capable of other work. Hell - I'd be stuffing envelopes for a living if I had to...
5) Have our medical system paying for itself. Free health for kiwis, anyone else needs to pay their expenses, either through insurances or a contra deal with foreign powers.
6) Ditch this PC bullshit that stops us from saying "Enough - get off your arse and get a job". I don't care if you're a rocket scientist... if you're sucking up good dole money, you have a month to sort your shit out, and 6 months before you'll find yourself in a barracks in Waiuru
7) Tell the politicians they're on their way out unless they sort this shit out. Not in the year before the next election either... start working on it NOW

aaaa - rant over sorry - I had to get that off my chest

[Hitcher]

Let's look at this another way. Does the existence of a death penalty reduce serious offending for which it may be a sentence? No. Does it solve the problem of parole for serious offenders whose time for release has come? Most certainly. Can it be "undone" if a convict is subsequently determined to be innocent? No. Does having this form of sanction make the job of Courts and sentencing Judges easier? No. Should juries be allowed to set sentences? No, and most definately not for capital cases.

[Paul in NZ]

Yet the 'soft' and humane options are possibly the most barbaric of all because they produce the conditions that have caused these events?

Maybe a death penalty is not the only answer but the current situation is equally impossible.

[ManDownUnder]

Yet the 'soft' and humane options are possibly the most barbaric of all because they produce the conditions that have caused these events?

Maybe a death penalty is not the only answer but the current situation is equally impossible.

Agreed 100%. Toughen up on the bastards currently doing time.

[spudchucka]

My family are among the RSA homicide victims. My sister was the lone survivor, so I guess that gives me an experienced victims view on the subject.

I would kill Bell, the guys that supplied the drugs, the shotgun, the getaway car. I would shoot them cold bloodiedly, easier than I would kill a goat, rabbit or possumn., without as much guilt as killing an animal.

I have lived with five years of frustration with the justice system, police and the dept of correctrions, because the worst part of the RSA homicides were they were unnecessary, Bell should have been behind bars.

He wanted to kill those people, he new my sister was going to be there, he thought that it would be just her and the cleaner, he wanted to kill them.

I would give my eye teeth to torture and then kill him.

I would love to chat with anyone one on one about reinstatement of the death penalty. I was supposed to stand for one of the political parties 2 elections ago, but we had an altercation re Capital Punishment.

Ace

I haven't been reading this thread at all but happened to click on it today and read your post. I can certainly understand your feelings.

BELL would certainly be one that I wouldn't lose any sleep at all over if the state decided to fry the prick.

Your sister was recently made the patron of a wing of new cops, how did she find that experience?

[Lou Girardin]

Bell is definitely a candidate for retrospective abortion, with a specially blunted knitting needle.