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Thread: Police are planning...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by modalx
    The stats used by LTSA to justify the current policy are simply invalid. Any first year statistics student could confirm that it is not possible to draw the conclusions they have from the data available.

    The key fact is that the vast majority injury accidents occur below the posted limit. The same event would have occurred if the speed limit was 200kph or, dare I suggest, did not exist.
    Can you please post those stats re injury accidents occuring below posted speed limits? What about fatal accidents?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    What I believe is that police out on our roads enforcing the road rules and slowing people down does make the roads safer. I don't give a flying f**k how many tickets the police issue. If people are dumb enough to keep speeding and driving like idiots then they have nothing to moan about.
    There are 2 things about this statement that are not supported by any evidence. First there is the implication that enforcing arbitrary speed limits reduces accidents. This might sound right but it is NOT proven. Most accidents occur well below the posted limits. Speed may still be a contributing cause but if it was below the limit how would enforcing the limit have changed anything? Speed may also be a factor when the main cause is something else - like being drunk. There has been an orchestrated effort by the LTSA to misrepresent these facts and link speed limit enforcement to accident reduction. Sadly it is easy to buy in to the lie and many people seem to have done so without much thought.

    Secondly there is an implication that speeding and driving like an idiot is the same thing. If speeding means driving beyond your abilities, your machine or without regard for the conditions then this is absolutely true. You could do that at 5ks. But usually "speeding" means exceeding some totally meaningless and unscientific velocity number that by itself and without regard to the myriad of other factors that add up to an accident, is just a joke. For the sake of this unholy number the citizens of this fair land are being held to ransom. Rise up people - we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more!

    Of course we will take it. We'll bend over and take it like we always do. Then we'll pay for the privelige of being screwed. But then maybe some of us will act. Subversively. Dirty sneaky anti-authoritarian redlining rubber burning mayhem. Go on - you know you want to.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by firestormer
    Isn't "Speed Kills" effectively the same as "If you speed, you will die"?
    Well I dont see it like that. "Speed Kills" is a general statement. "If you speed you will die" implies that there will be a definite outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestormer
    I still maintain that the gummint are trying to fix a problem by addressing it in an over-simplistic way that tackles only one symptom, not the root cause.
    If the Govt are guilty of anything it is concentrating on an area that will have the greatest impact with the least possible cost to them. To educate drivers to the point that they might change their attitudes would require a major investment in funds and resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestormer
    That's a very sensible statement, Spud, and I agree.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestormer
    For example, if road safety is the ultimate aim, and 90% of injury-causing accidents (or is just accidents? I'm afraid I don't know for sure) occur at intersections, why isn't more effort put into education and enforcement around the rules that govern intersections? I may occasionally break the speed limit, but I never run red lights, and always stop at stop signs.
    I agree but let me tell you that when a cop is tasked with the job of sitting at an intersection and pinging people who don't stop at stop signs, run red and amber lights, don't know the give way rules, don't indicate etc etc they become the subject of some major abuse. The point being that every person caught breaking the road rules thinks that the police should be out concentrating on something other than what they are currently being pinged for.

    I would like to see, (tounge in cheek) all the current road offences dumped and replaced with one offence - "crap driving". That would do me.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestormer
    Yup, I totally agree, and it wasn't my intention to blame the police for the shortcomings in policy/action. I also take to heart your points about good attitudes being fostered in the home, and about minimising risks to yourself / your family / other road users.
    OK, cool, we have found some common ground. Attitudes are everything in life, so much that happens to individuals is directly linked to their personal attitudes.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAsLEX
    What annoys me is that the other day I see on the news a guy being put away for ten years after killing one of his mates, not for the first time, while drunk and yet he had previously caused death through this and had soo many convictions.

    The media labelled him as New Zealands most dangerous person on the road. My question...why was he ever allowed back behind the wheel?? He was a repeat offender had practically murdered his mate previously but was allowed to do it again.

    And, I may be wrong, but i still think he hasn't been permenantly barred from driving, maybe for a few years but people like this should never be able to operate a deadly weapon ever again!
    The guy was disqualified at the time of the crash. Even when people are indefinately disqualifed they still get their licence back once they convince some pussy of a bureucrat that they have changed their ways.

    Even if someone is disqualified it doesn't physically stop them from getting behind the wheel, you would have to cut off their arms and legs to do that. :sneaky2:

    If you want to blame someone for this, well the guy himself is ultimately responsible but if the Court would just grow some balls then this guy might have been in jail before this thing happened. Jail is the only place for this type of scum.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by modalx
    There are 2 things about this statement that are not supported by any evidence.
    I don't need any evidence because as stated it is my BELIEF. I'm not trying to prove it to you or anyone else but I do believe it and I know it to be true because I am out there seeing for myself the results of cockheads who think they are indestructable.

    Quote Originally Posted by modalx
    Secondly there is an implication that speeding and driving like an idiot is the same thing. If speeding means driving beyond your abilities, your machine or without regard for the conditions then this is absolutely true.
    That is typical of the attitude of the above mentioned so called indestructable cockheads.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    However, speed is a major contributing factor to the trauma suffered as a result of a crash. Therefore I am afraid that speed does in fact kill. Especially when it is accompanied by stoppping extremeley quickly as is the case when vehicles colide.
    Unfortunately this is not what the current road safety ads are telling us!

    They say that if you travel at 99km/h you are a virtuous family-loving zero-risk saint who will not kill anybody in a vehicle accident because you are obeying the speed limit.

    On the older hand, if you travel at 101km/h you are a rabid, child-hating murderer because you will kill in a vehicle accident.

    Now most people realise through experience that this extreme position is patently false. Even worse, it obscures the fact that driving at any speed is a risky activity and that it is still possible to kill at lower speeds. So the whole message about excessive speed, or speed inappropriate for the conditions is lost in the hyperbole.

    I actually thought the LTSA was heading in the right direction with the "braking advert" as it wasn't over-emotive, and demonstrated the physical reality of travelling faster (not necessarily "speeding"). But then they blew it with the latest campaign it seems to me.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacD
    Unfortunately this is not what the current road safety ads are telling us!

    They say that if you travel at 99km/h you are a virtuous family-loving zero-risk saint who will not kill anybody in a vehicle accident because you are obeying the speed limit.

    On the older hand, if you travel at 101km/h you are a rabid, child-hating murderer because you will kill in a vehicle accident.

    Now most people realise through experience that this extreme position is patently false. Even worse, it obscures the fact that driving at any speed is a risky activity and that it is still possible to kill at lower speeds. So the whole message about excessive speed, or speed inappropriate for the conditions is lost in the hyperbole.

    I actually thought the LTSA was heading in the right direction with the "braking advert" as it wasn't over-emotive, and demonstrated the physical reality of travelling faster (not necessarily "speeding"). But then they blew it with the latest campaign it seems to me.
    The LTSA ads are lame and don't give the right message - no arguement from me. However if kiwis still possess common sense like they used to we would be able to see that these are just the creations of some dickhead advertising goon but still use our common sense on the road. Just because the ads are crap doesn't mean the message is crap or wrong.

    As for the ads my personal favourite was the "don't worry be happy" one. I've never seen the rabid dog one that everyone goes on about.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sAsLEX
    What annoys me is that the other day I see on the news a guy being put away for ten years after killing one of his mates, not for the first time, while drunk and yet he had previously caused death through this and had soo many convictions.

    The media labelled him as New Zealands most dangerous person on the road. My question...why was he ever allowed back behind the wheel?? He was a repeat offender had practically murdered his mate previously but was allowed to do it again.

    And, I may be wrong, but i still think he hasn't been permenantly barred from driving, maybe for a few years but people like this should never be able to operate a deadly weapon ever again!
    How do you stop someone from driving a vehicle? Not everyone respects the license requirement, and you don't have to have a license to buy a car.

    The dude that removed my brother-in-law's right arm and leg was an unlicensed driver due to a previous DIC, a known drug dealer, and had just got out of jail. He was pissed at the time of the accident. He lost an eye in the subsequent roll-over and crash into a paddock, he's been on an invalid's benefit since then. Not only was he driving another vehicle soon after he managed to get himself on national telly to present "his side" of the story the week after TV3 made my brother-in-law look like a gun-toting redneck ex-bike riding hoon.

    This dude had killed someone previously while DIC. He really felt banned from driving didn't he? These are the sort of people for whom a fine holds no power because they claim poverty but have a bloody good income from their weed plantation. They don't care about anything except themselves, and prison is just a great way to make contacts.

    Does anyone have a sensible answer? Right now I doubt it. A Judge can only use the tools that he has been given by the Judicial system, and at the moment an incident on the road is still viewed as an accident. It is bloody difficult to get a manslaughter charge to stick, and the only murder judgement you could gain in relation to a vehicle "accident" is in a civil case after the initial court proceedings.

    Try to think about this from every viewpoint. There is a ton of emotion on every side. The justice system isn't about validating those emotions, it is about applying whatever punishment society has decided is appropriate for a given act. Read Dr Bob's signature. As a society NZ is currently failing to even reach for the ideal of "Community". If you want change you need to commit to some sort of idelogical framewaork that is expressed in the political system of NZ. Whining at Spud achieves nothing except pissing someone off who probably like the rest of us is just after a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Start thinking about who and how you will vote at the next election. Start canvasing your current MP to see how receptive they are to some of the views people express here. Try and figure out what you are willing to compromise on.

    It all sounds like hard work. It should be. Kiwis take their lifestyle for granted and love to carp on about how terrible politicians are. You put them there. That might sound unpalatable, but everyone on this site who voted last election is directly responsible for the Government we have now. I can hear everyone going, "I didn't vote for them", very indignantly, but they way you voted and how you manipulated (or failed to) your MMP choices gave you the Government you have now.

    You want the death penalty for recidivist drunk drivers who kill repeatedly? Find a political party that is willing to support that stance and find a way of getting them into Parliament.

    Just Stop Winding Spud up. He's here for the bikes, not to be flogged about your personal hobby horse.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    As for the ads my personal favourite was the "don't worry be happy" one.
    I know you've said that before too, but really I didn't like that ad at all because to me the message was no need to look where you are going, no need to worry about crashing, don't worry be happy, boompha, what the hell.

    It seems liked positive affirmation for a negative behaviour with no message about taking care unlike the "Take another look at intersections" ads - which really did say take your time, double check before you proceed.
    Cheers

    Merv

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    I don't need any evidence because as stated it is my BELIEF. I'm not trying to prove it to you or anyone else but I do believe it and I know it to be true because I am out there seeing for myself the results of cockheads who think they are indestructable.
    Oh, my mistake. I thought blind adherence to arbitrary beliefs was something we left behind in the renaissance some centuries ago. Apparently not - at least we cannot expect reason from our leaders or 'protectors'. We must rely on their subjective experience. Silly me.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    That is typical of the attitude of the above mentioned so called indestructable cockheads.
    How about a real comment? I should have expected just another arrogant throw away line - pathetic really.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by merv
    I know you've said that before too, but really I didn't like that ad at all because to me the message was no need to look where you are going, no need to worry about crashing, don't worry be happy, boompha, what the hell.

    It seems liked positive affirmation for a negative behaviour with no message about taking care unlike the "Take another look at intersections" ads - which really did say take your time, double check before you proceed.
    That ad made my 3 year cry the first time saw it. He freaked when the bike got hit.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by madandy


    The Police are simply carrying out their duties as instructed by the wizards in Wellington.Its the f/wit politicians and other Buerocrats(sp.) who are to blame for misguided policy enforcement.
    Who saw Holmes last night (I don't usually watch the tosser but....), this guy was being harrassed by the Police for his personalised number plates
    "H8 ACC", "H8 OSH" and "H8 IRD" - supposedly due to offensiveness. Now if you can give the Police the fingers without any recourse, (except maybe a clip round the ear) why can't this guy have freedom of speech on his number plate ? He possibly has some "hate" issues but at least he didn't have one saying "H8 COPS". I remember seeing a plate years ago on a blue RX7 in Wgtn "MOT SUX".
    I didn't hear who laid the complaint but "Andy "Knackerhead" from LTSA was on the show endorsing the harrassment of the guy. How pathetic to waste Police time over a bloody number plate. Be interesting to see what the outcome is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2
    Does anyone have a sensible answer? Right now I doubt it. A Judge can only use the tools that he has been given by the Judicial system, and at the moment an incident on the road is still viewed as an accident. It is bloody difficult to get a manslaughter charge to stick, and the only murder judgement you could gain in relation to a vehicle "accident" is in a civil case after the initial court proceedings.
    Someone at work suggested the New York (I think) policy of 3 strikes and you're out. These guys with 22+ DIC etc would have been long gone. But then we would probably need more jails....ah just bring back public stonings - the Govt could charge admission and make even more money.
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  13. #73
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    BTW - the last speeding ticket I got (only 5 months to go then Im clean - yay), was for 136km/h overtaking some cars at bottom of Taka's. The cop said he only ticketed me cos I had the missus on the back (just as well or I prob would have been going quicker - (good old handbrake, ball and chain etc). Does that mean he didn't care about me hurting myself or possibly other road users, just my missus???

    He clocked me at that speed just going out of laser range, and then I was "goneburger" (his words - lol).
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2
    That ad made my 3 year cry the first time saw it. He freaked when the bike got hit.
    Interesting. Tim, my four-year-old, loves the ad, especially when the biker drops the bike.

    In fact when he first saw it, he turned around to me and said, "Dad if he just did a stoppie he wouldn't have hit that car!"
    And I to my motorcycle parked like the soul of the junkyard. Restored, a bicycle fleshed with power, and tore off. Up Highway 106 continually drunk on the wind in my mouth. Wringing the handlebar for speed, wild to be wreckage forever.

    - James Dickey, Cherrylog Road.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticno6
    Interesting. Tim, my four-year-old, loves the ad, especially when the biker drops the bike.

    In fact when he first saw it, he turned around to me and said, "Dad if he just did a stoppie he wouldn't have hit that car!"
    Tim sounds like a dude and a future KBer in the making

    BTW - how's the fork seals holding up ? Good enough to show Tim a few stoppies of your own ?
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