Which is the greater evil

[Squeak the Rat]

Those choices certainly do make up the axis of evil. Satan is currently plotting to overthrow the christian world with hords of fighting dogs and aborted feati (?)......


All this talk of evil is scaring me. This should have been a positive thread, like: which is more good; apples or jandals?

[ManDownUnder]

Abortion - it's killing innocent people

And yes - I am pro life

[Lou Girardin]

Abortion - it's killing innocent people

And yes - I am pro life

Innocent groups of cells.

[ManDownUnder]

Innocent groups of cells.

Nice try - my response to that leads to an argument of the ages that will only end up in us arguing eternally, or agreeing to disagree.

How 'bout we cut to the chase and agree to disagree?

[Finn]

I'm pro abortion. Helen Clark is a good example.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm pro abortion. Helen Clark is a good example.

No Helen Clarke is a good example of how easily swayed the average kiwi is...

"TAX RISES
INCREASING CRIME RATE
OVERLOOK COMPANY TAX BREAKS

... last but not least ...$2.57 a week for 67% of the population who have a vowel in the first 3 letters of their name "

"oooo baubles"

We got what we voted for... well actually what THEY voted for

[scracha]

How does it show up hypocrisy? The choices are so disparate that they cannot highlight double-standards of any form.

If the choices were "Abortion vs Euthanasia vs Willful Murder" (all pertaining to killing a human) or "Dog fighting vs Docking dogs' tails vs mandatory speying and neutering" then you might see some possible double standards showing up.

I just meant the "we're on the moral high-ground" brigade (based on their own and/or religious beliefs as to when "life" begins)" showing a lot of double-standards in that they seem to think young ladies should be "punished" for a simple mistake. They're obviously saints themselves.

You don't see people who have accidents on motorcycles having to be punished for the next 16 years. Hell, you don't see people who kill other people due to having motorcycle accidents being punished for the next 16 years (and there's at least 2 lives being punished when a child is unwanted). Who's going to pay for all these unwanted children anyway?

Perhaps I should start a new poll asking an equally stupid question.

Which is most likely to have dire consequences and therefore the most irresponsible?
a) Having sex without using at least 2 forms of contraception?
b) Driving through the centre of town at 75Kmph?

[Joni]

Innocent groups of cells.

Hmm Lou, I can see the point you are trying to make here... however the picture I removed off this thread were definately not of a group of dead cells.

Im pro-choice... your call as to what is right for you. I know what is right for me and every human being has the right to make that decision on an individual basis.

[ManDownUnder]

I just meant the "we're on the moral high-ground" brigade (based on their own and/or religious beliefs as to when "life" begins)" showing a lot of double-standards in that they seem to think young ladies should be "punished" for a simple mistake. They're obviously saints themselves.

The issue I take is with the outcome - if the consequences of your actions are a child why don't you deal with that child? Adopt it out (yes emotionally very difficult), or raise it and give it decent life if you can.

And what of the father - why is it assumed he shares/bears no responsibility to, or have any involvement in the whole thing? Isn't the child his as much as hers?

To use your line of reasoning, what if she wants it and he doesn't? Why should he be punished?

aaaa I can see the conversation beginning all over. Joni, Quasi - PD warning...

[Quasievil]

Well for the record, I dont particulary believe Abortion is right, I love kids, I got two, would have been easy to abort them but that would have made me the looser as they are awesome.
People seem reluctant to take on board their responsibilities these days, they would rather eliminate any complexity from their lifes rather than live with it, same goes for marrige "ahhh this aint right im out" same goes with money " ahh I need a loan to go pay that bill" same even goes with human life "ahh Im not quite ready will have to get rid of it"
Its all a bit to easy these days for people.

In saying all that though I had a girlfreind years ago whom I found out had an abortion (presumably mine) at the time I couldnt have given a rats arse, now I wish it were different, I would have had a 24 year old daughter or son, that would be great, especially when Im looking for a babysitter for the 11 year olds.

[The_Dover]

Abortion - it's killing innocent people

And yes - I am pro life

One word.

markauckland.

[ManDownUnder]

From an academic point of view, something I have always found interesting is the whole "My body" argument in that the egg is a product of the woman's body (from my understanding) it is not a part of her body.

Just as the sperm is manufactured by, but is not part of the man.

Upon conception the bunch of cells (Ovum at that point?) attaches itself and draws nutrient from the mother and to my mind is the equivalent or a leech or similar at that point.

Damn what is that word - it's a ??? (freeloader, draining food and energy from it's host).

edit - parasite! From a biological point of view - it's a parasite

I've never understood at which point it actually becomes part of the woman's body. I realise this also supports my pro life position, but that whole thing aside - I'd be very interested in an objective understanding of how that all works right at that point.

[Quasievil]

Damn what is that word - it's a ??? (freeloader, draining food and energy from it's host).

A Dover ???

[ManDownUnder]

A Dover ???

LOL - no mate you'll find him in the yellow pages, but not under parasite

[jazbug5]

From an academic point of view, something I have always found interesting is the whole "My body" argument in that the egg is a product of the woman's body (from my understanding) it is not a part of her body.

Just as the sperm is manufactured by, but is not part of the man...

Hmm. I am not sure that the argument is that the fetus is itself supposed to be *part* of the woman's body per se (although it is comandeering nutrients etc as, as you say, a parasite so *building* itself from her body). I think perhaps what is meant is that the process of 9 months of pregnancy followed by birth is something that takes place in the woman's body... and it ain't a picnic.

On that basis: if your semen was, say, the size of golfballs and hung around in your scrotum for a few months demanding extra nourishment, then you might be nearer to a true parallell..?