Mapp 90 Day Bill

[Colapop]

If I had staff that could do as they have been 'asked' (the poor dears - wouldn't want them to have to work now) then half the battle would be won. The problem is that people have been brought up in Social Welfare state. No accountability, no responsibility and yet they still, after surfing for "not orn" all day front up and expect a paycheck once a fortnight. Our wrkforce has very little work ethic and the foreign staff that we are 'forced' to import actually want to be here and they want to work. I hate to be the bearer of bad news people but, employers don't owe you a living. Now get off your arse and get to work!

[chanceyy]

Whats wrong with being management? When I left school I was a car cleaner, now I drive a desk. I worked hard to get it.

for those progressive managers who work along side their workers to increase productivity, who treat their workers with respect and have fair days work for fair days pay ... no issue (not many of these types unfortunately)

the bill that is up for consideration seriously can diminish workers rights ...

I have actually been on both sides of the fence .. so I am aware of both cons & pros ..


this bill takes away the workers rights for certain protections, its not working overseas .. and workers here need to find out what its about

[acewheelie]

Still depends a bit where the foreign staff came from. NZ used to train very very good mechanics, thats why they are sort after around the world in mining and motorsport. They can do the job inside out, and work well under pressure. This new generation are f&&king hopeless.

[acewheelie]

for those progressive managers who work along side their workers to increase productivity, who treat their workers with respect and have fair days work for fair days pay ... no issue (not many of these types unfortunately)

the bill that is up for consideration seriously can diminish workers rights ...

I have actually been on both sides of the fence .. so I am aware of both cons & pros ..


this bill takes away the workers rights for certain protections, its not working overseas .. and workers here need to find out what its about

I likw to manage by objectives, empowers people and they get far more job satisfaction, but this isn't the issue. The issue is there are lazy employees out there, this law change takes away their protection. Yeah, there are some turkey employers out there too, don't see that this law change can protect you long term working for a loser boss.

[chanceyy]

Still depends a bit where the foreign staff came from. NZ used to train very very good mechanics, thats why they are sort after around the world in mining and motorsport. They can do the job inside out, and work well under pressure. This new generation are f&&king hopeless.

well we do not need to discuss the student loans by where we have forced our skilled labour overseas.

Our wrkforce has very little work ethic and the foreign staff that we are 'forced' to import actually want to be here and they want to work. I hate to be the bearer of bad news people but, employers don't owe you a living. Now get off your arse and get to work!

Part of the issue is that young ppl today are not taught responsibility, good work eithics ... they think the world owes them something ... also if you respect your workers they in turn respect you .. (something most managers have an issue with)


Most employees do not feel valued, those who do will work hard, those who don't ... why bother ..

[Colapop]

for those progressive managers who work along side their workers to increase productivity, who treat their workers with respect and have fair days work for fair days pay ... no issue (not many of these types unfortunately)
the bill that is up for consideration seriously can diminish workers rights ...
I have actually been on both sides of the fence .. so I am aware of both cons & pros ..
this bill takes away the workers rights for certain protections, its not working overseas .. and workers here need to find out what its about

There are several things wrong with this post...
Progressive Managers who work alongside their staff??!!? M A N A G E M E N T is about managing not actually doing the work that workers are employed to do.
A "fair days work for fair days pay" is equitable if the workers you have actually work. Most workers consider that "fair days work for fair days pay" means they start at 9am fart around for half an hour getting settled in to work, break at 10 for smoko - half an hour at least before they get back to work, settle in (again) so it's now 11. 12 o'clock and it's down tools and out the door for an hour (I'm entitled to an hours break) but what about the further half hour it takes them to "settle in" again? And then productivity is down coz they'e stuffed their fat arses with so much food their bodies are incapable of digesting it all in one go. Unless they're "Gym junkies" and they've spent 40 mins grinding their sweaty bodies to some spaced out instructor before hardly showering and getting back to wrk still smelling of B.O. and they're too tired to work. The afternoon shift isn't much better what with afternoon tea and then biding their time until hometime at 5. Unless of course little Johnny or Sally has adentist apointment that couldn't have been made at one of the many after hours clinics. Not to mentions various births, deaths, marriages, accidents, coaching kids sports teams..... It's never ending. Whne the f*ck I am I supposed to get any staff do any actual work around the place? "Oh but you're workaholic" F8ck me!! I don't really want to work 70 hours a week but I don't have any staff that will!
Workers rights???!!!???! Workers have got more rights then they ever have before - and that's not enough??!!?? Noooo it's never enough. We workers don't want to actually have to come to work - We're taking "stress" leave - so you can pay us not to come in....

[Colapop]

Still depends a bit where the foreign staff came from. NZ used to train very very good mechanics, thats why they are sort after around the world in mining and motorsport. They can do the job inside out, and work well under pressure. This new generation are f&&king hopeless.

And that is all to do with the governments of the '80's saying "We don't need an apprenticeship scheme - the industries will train what they want..."

[chanceyy]

I likw to manage by objectives, empowers people and they get far more job satisfaction, but this isn't the issue. The issue is there are lazy employees out there, this law change takes away their protection. Yeah, there are some turkey employers out there too, don't see that this law change can protect you long term working for a loser boss.

As stated earlier Its those employers who will take full advantage of being able to hire staff, then sack them before the 90 days is up, regardless of what ability the worker has.

there are scum workers .. along with scum bosses, But there are genuine ppl who are going to suffer if this bill goes through

[acewheelie]

Its not them and us anymore, those days have gone. i work with a predominantly good group of guys. When I need something done 95 % just go do what I want. They know its important if I give them something to do. The funny thing is, they are the younger ones, its the ones in their forties are the sassholes causing the problems wher I am, and I think its jealousy, silly really.

[acewheelie]

ooops off topic, sorry I haqve the flu!

[chanceyy]

There are several things wrong with this post...
Progressive Managers who work alongside their staff??!!? M A N A G E M E N T is about managing not actually doing the work that workers are employed to do.
A "fair days work for fair days pay" is equitable if the workers you have actually work. Most workers consider that "fair days work for fair days pay" means they start at 9am fart around for half an hour getting settled in to work, break at 10 for smoko - half an hour at least before they get back to work, settle in (again) so it's now 11. 12 o'clock and it's down tools and out the door for an hour (I'm entitled to an hours break) but what about the further half hour it takes them to "settle in" again? And then productivity is down coz they'e stuffed their fat arses with so much food their bodies are incapable of digesting it all in one go. Unless they're "Gym junkies" and they've spent 40 mins grinding their sweaty bodies to some spaced out instructor before hardly showering and getting back to wrk still smelling of B.O. and they're too tired to work. The afternoon shift isn't much better what with afternoon tea and then biding their time until hometime at 5. Unless of course little Johnny or Sally has adentist apointment that couldn't have been made at one of the many after hours clinics. Not to mentions various births, deaths, marriages, accidents, coaching kids sports teams..... It's never ending. Whne the f*ck I am I supposed to get any staff do any actual work around the place? "Oh but you're workaholic" F8ck me!! I don't really want to work 70 hours a week but I don't have any staff that will!
Workers rights???!!!???! Workers have got more rights then they ever have before - and that's not enough??!!?? Noooo it's never enough. We workers don't want to actually have to come to work - We're taking "stress" leave - so you can pay us not to come in....

sorry but your post is bullshit ... bit like the bill really ...

yes managers manage... workers work .. however if you REALLY have all your workers doing the above .. something needs to be done about your recruiting style ..

[Colapop]

It's not do with recruitment. It's to do with the "rights" that workers "expect" me to provide for them. Work to a lot of people is "what's in it for me?" Intead of "How can I best help the business become better?" Thereby ensuring continued and increasing income.

[Str8 Jacket]

I am against the 90 day bill. When I worked in both the Hospotality and Reatil industry there were sometimes clauses in the contract that gave xxx amount of day's as being a trial period and you would be let go if they didnt want you. Unfortunately I often saw this abused because of a simple minor personality clash, or in one case where I worked a few years ago a new employee slept with the bosses son and regretted it so she called things off. The boss fired her cause his son didnt want her there. He didnt tell her this but he told me, I felt really bad for her as she had recently become a single mother and had left her abusive partner, she was just trying to support herself.I know that she had made a mistake but everyone makes mistakes, I dont think that anyone should be punished to that extent. Im sure there would be a dozen or more other situations that could be abused because of this bill. But as Hitcher say's, it hasn't gone to Select Comittee yet. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't.

[chanceyy]

It's not do with recruitment. It's to do with the "rights" that workers "expect" me to provide for them. Work to a lot of people is "what's in it for me?" Intead of "How can I best help the business become better?" Thereby ensuring continued and increasing income.

well if your workers are doing as you say in your previous post, there are serious issues that your work has .. IMHO it would seem that its a two way street .. if your workers are not performing then management needs to first look at its own style of management.

In my work place i straddle the fence .. both as a worker and sometimes on the management team .. its a fine line .. but all of our workers are where they are supose to be during their work schedule, any HR issues are dealt with .. fairly and accountability on both sides is paramount.

[James Deuce]

Geez Col. Thanks. It's that sort of attitude that really makes people want to turn up to work. "You're an employee, so you're a lazy cunt". Ever wonder why no one does the job you'd like them too?

I bought a waterproof pouch to protect my cell phone when I commute because it isn't mine. I have to ring my wife during the day, so I pay for my personal calls on the aforementioned phone. When I'm on call I go nowhere and do nothing, so that I can respond as well as possible, as quickly as possible.

Oldrider's tried to have this out with me before too. My "team" is under-resourced. I work my arse off. I'm there at 7am I go home at 7pm. But I'm not a robot. I can't work at 100% all the time. I don't get stuff done, I get my arse kicked for it, despite there being 1.5 guys doing what used to be comfortably managed by 5 guys.

The fact that we are failing to meet objectives and SLAs is glossed over by refusing pay increments and hiring more management staff to keep a closer eye on all aspects of the process that defines my job, and by sending us on courses so we can better manage our time and apply our knowledge more aggressively. It's demeaning. It doesn't increase workflow, it increases admin. By using Change and Problem management to my "advantage", I can completely and utterly cease to do any work at all and just process the steps of the processes that define those two particular ITIL "areas". They'd love me if I did.

"So go and get another job", I hear you say.

They're all the same is why, and better the Devil you know than the one you don't.

By introducing a 90 day probation period, I'll get even less work done, because I'll be training a never ending stream of "no-hopers" in the process required to manage the Customers I support. You, and every other employer/manager out there know it takes 6 months to get someone productive in a specialised area. The perfect employee you fuckers keep advertising for, you know; "MCSE, CCNA, CCIE, 5 year exposure to ITIL practices, min of 15 year IT experience, Project Management Experience a must, No kids, No pets, No wife, preferably a tertiary qualification at Masters level in a Management discipline, pay range $35-$40K", just doesn't exist.

I'm fucking tired of being held up as an example of a no hoping standard NZ employee because I have no desire to ever plumb the depths of management. I have no ambition. When things are going right I like my job. I like getting to talk to real people who don't live in the unreal IT company space. I DON'T want to spend all my time peering up my own arsehole. Most of all, I want to get to the end of each day having achieved something. Not filling out a million electronic forms, but making someone's day better by doing the fundamentals of the job I am paid for.

But what's the point? You Management types think we're all useless anyway!