*RANT*Limited choices*RANT*

[Ghost Lemur]

*takes a deep breath*

As some of you know, been saving for the past two years for a new bike. Still not quite there (about half way if I don't spend to much on the upcoming honeymoon). But in the meantime been researching, reading, weighing up options.

Been pretty set on a dual purpose/dual sport for quite a while now. Two main reasons are sprotsbikes are too rediculously overpriced, too expensive to repair when they lay down, and I can't afford a road bike plus an off-roader.

Now my other requirements (as per my motard thread) were a daily commute (got to justify spending all that money on something selfish to the soon-to-be Mrs Lemur) and some weekend fun. Whether the fun was on the twisties, gravel backroads or fully offroad.

After that bit of background I'll get to my Rant.

WHAT THE FUCK is with the state of available bikes in NZ. I've been reading the 111-page thread on the 06 KLX250 over at advrider.com, and seeing all the performance increases they were getting with some relatively simple/cheap mods. That by the way is not including the Aussie's who were being given 300cc kits free with their new purchases. So I got to Kawasaki.co.nz to get a pricing seeing there are zero new ones on bikepoint.

What do I discover. There not even available here. WTF not??? No idea. The KLX300 is, fat load of good to someone without a full licence. So what else are they keeping from me, I ask myself. I have been eyeing the D-Tracker on bikepoint, but at $7k for a 2k model it not only seems a bit expensive but is more than I'm eventually wanting to spend. I pay kawasaki japan a visit, and discover that 2006 D-Tracker's are not only available but are ~115,000 yen, or wait for it.... *drum roll* $7k NEW.

Yes yes I know there'd be the additional costs if they were for sale here. That'd make them like what? $8.5k? Well that's the same price as the on road DR-Z250k6, which funnily enough seems to be the only truely DS bike available new in NZ.

These are the bikes I've so far considered and their availability (or lack there of) here. I'm still not sure on some of them.

If anyone can point me to others which I could add to my list, and further insight (or link thereof), I'll greatly appreciate it.

My simple requirements. Able to handle open-road (need to be able to get to the off-road/back road fun. Road registered. Light and not too tall (or modifyable down a bit) as I'm a short (read: ~5'10" when I'm not slouching) and skinny (read: 60Kg). So as you can see even when I have my full licence I'm not going to be in any rush to upgrade.

Gas Gas
# Pampera 250 - Definitely a possibility, although there doesn't seem to be a single one available in NZ. Heard they were ~$7k or so, good price. Unsure of performance (including what can be done) and parts availability/cost/etc.
# EC250 - $11k+ new, not sure of anything else related to these.
# MC250 - Like the EC more expensive than the Pampera, not sure of much else, other than they're not listed on the NZ Gas Gas site.

Honda
# CRF250X - available, $11k new, although listed as trail bike on their website this screams of a high maintainence expensive pro bike definitely not suitable for eveyday use.
# XR250L - available, $9-9.5K new, listed as a Farm bike, looks heavy, no sure of performance (either on road or off), but it's a possibility.
# Other veriations of the XR - So many different letters it makes my head spin, only the L is available new, so it would appear (at least as far as NZ is concerned) all others have been discontinued.

Husaberg
Nil suitable models available in NZ

Husqvarna
# TE250 - available, $13.5k new, highly strung, high performance, but road registerable. I'd expect expensive parts, and maintainence too. Looks feckin sexy though.

Kawasaki *takes another deep breath*
# KLX 250R - NOT available, would be $8-$9k new if they were. Very easy to get some extra performance out of them with mods ranging from free to expensive. Including the ability (at least in Oz and by getting parts seperately in the US) to get a 300cc kit which just drops in.
FUCK YOU KAWASAKI!!!
# KL 250 - available, price = who cares, gutless overweight, under performance, alright for solely a commuter (if your that way inclined).
# D-Tracker - NOT available, were it to be would be about the same price as the KLX. Not surprising seeing it's just a motarded version of the KLX.
Did I mention FUCK YOU KAWASAKI!!!

Suzuki
# DR-Z250 - Available, $8.5 new, not sure of performance, or what can be done. But this is why so many kiwi's love Suzuki. They actually sell there bikes here. Will definetly being doing some more research into these. With that sort of price and availability I'd expect to pick up a well looked after near new (less than 3yrs old) model in good condition for $5k. Sweet. Definitely a major contender at the moment.

Yamaha
# DT230 - Not available. For once it's not the NZ divisions fault. They stopped manufacturing them. Enough to make me cry, but if I could find a late model one in good condition second hand I'd jump on it. Motu, sell me yours, you know you want to.
# TTR250 - Available, $10k new, bit expensive. Like the Suzi I'm not so up on performance etc on this bike. Needs further research.
# WR250 - Available, $12k new. Expensive, but quick, and nimble. If price was no option this would be up in the running. But as price is a consideration makes this bike unlikely.

So there we have it. Yes I know I've mainly focused on new bikes. Although I'm not looking to buy new, continued availability of parts, plus happy current owners upgrading to latest model, etc all mean I'm probably better off getting an older version of an available bike (exception made for the DT230).

Thanks for listening (well reading).

As I said before, I main reason for this thread is (besides getting it off my chest 'FUCK YOU KAWASAKI') to get more opinions, suggestions, experiences, etc.

[paturoa]

You haven't mentioned the DR650, it is probably cheaper, not quite as good off road (rekon it got more to do with the rider and tyres than anything else for normal people)

And for on road, which is where most people without cars and trailers spend most of their time, its a whole lot better.

Just a thought - check the prices you'll be surprised. Check with a few of teh KBers with DR's.

[Motu]

I went through the same frustration when looking for a sub 250 street legal dirt bike....and you know how I solved it.I wasn't considering new though,and wasn't restricted out of the KLX300 option.Road registered KLX250's were around but rare,and that's what I was waiting for on TradeMe...there were some electric start KLX250's,but a closer look shows they aren't a real KLX - crap non adjustable suspn,steel tank(not that that a problem),they are better than a KLR,but a long way from a KLX250 plastic tank kickstart.

The TTR250 Raid and DR250 Gerbil looked pretty good too,but tall and heavy,they wouldn't be good as real trail bikes,but the suspn is good.I thought the standard TTR250 was the better option.I'm not sure if Yamaha makes a new or late model road TTR250 these days (the new one is really the XT225).Best choice would be the WR250F,but don't know how they would do on commuting duties,and have a small tank and narrow high seat.(but sit on one,long soft suspn,so although tall you can touch the ground...just.

Good luck....I'm happy with my choice - eat ya heart out!

[slowpoke]

Mate, you are talking some serious dosh there for fairly run of the mill new bikes. A quick look on Trademe revealed 77 dual purpose bikes for sale, 80% of which are under $10k. A few examples:

BMWF650 $8800
TTR600 $7500
KTM520 $7500 (high performance, high tech, high maintenance)
KTM LC4 400 $6000 (less performance, less tech, less maintenance)

Those are on the first page, found in about 30sec. Can't say I see the problem. If your set on new then that's the price you pay, end of story, but there are planty of S/H bikes to fit the bill if you aren't locked in to a certain model.

[Ixion]

None of those will work for him, he's restricted to 250cc.

[Ghost Lemur]

You haven't mentioned the DR650, it is probably cheaper, not quite as good off road (rekon it got more to do with the rider and tyres than anything else for normal people)

As I mentioned in my original post my main reason for sticking with 250cc (irrespective of licencing requirements) has to do with me being a teeny tiny man.

Really size wise a 125cc is probably perfect (hight weight etc) for me at moment. But road use is the main thing pushing me to a 250cc.

In a few years with some real experience and skill under my belt, I'll more than likely feel the need to move on up to a 400-650. The KLX 250R for example is capable of comfortable highway speeds while still being relatively lite.

BTW specs for the KLX can be seen on the Aussie Kwaka site here.


Motu - You're a tease. Just give up the DT and no one will get hurt.

Seriously though. I don't understand why the KLX isn't available here. The DR-Z seems to be doing brisk enough trade for them to keep pushing them. I'm sure the KLX would too. Not a tintank farmbike model. But the same one as available in Oz. Yes it's also has electric start, but no it's definitely a KLX.

Here is a link to the KLX thread over on advrider.com

I did consider the baja and old dr. Main reason for going for a bike which is being sold new is as I say, I've still got some saving to do, and if it's being sold now for $8500 new then I should be able to get a 2-4 yr old minta with my $5k budget. If I go for something that is $12k new then obviously I'm going to have to get a mid 90's model in order to come in under budget.

Of course if prices keep up the way they are and choices remain limited I might consider buying new paying off the remainder with what I'm currently spending on parking the cage each week.

Of course I'd like to buy new (nothing like that new bike smell and shiney metal). But having a family I have a great deal of difficulty justifying spending that much money on myself.

What are you're thoughts on the DR-Z250 Motu? Have you had much of a play with one? The only thing I'm concerned about is their height. I felt like a midget standing next to one. Power? Performance.

I take it their not available (roadworthy like the KLX) in the states. Was hoping to find another 111 page thread for it, but couldn't. So going to search the rest of the interweb and see what I can find.

[slowpoke]

None of those will work for him, he's restricted to 250cc.

Saving for two years I thought he might have had a chance to get off his restricted.
Still plenty of bikes though:

DRZ250 2003 $5500
DR250 2003 (should go for <$5000)
XT250 2005 $4850
TTR250 1997 $4200
XR200 2002 $3600 (yeah it is a H... H... Honda but I did put it at the bottom of the list, OK?)

You could by two of these for the price of the new bike and none of them will be significantly down on performance. Sure there may be maintenance costs or a bit of money to be spent but it would be balanced out by the instant depreciation that occurs as soon as you wheel a new bike outta the door.

Yeah, been there done that with saving for a bike. It's agony watching the prices creep up as your own saving efforts battle to make any inroads. The only saving (excuse the pun) grace is that the bikes you were looking at new two years ago are now a hell of a lot cheaper. You don't seem to be after cutting edge performance so the virtues of a new bike are outweighed by the savings you'd make on a preloved model. You are also looking at a segment that generally don't get thrashed as per the hardcore MX or enduro style bikes.

Now, if I can just find a big bore Supermoto bike for under 10K I might catch you on a dirt road somewhere.....

[Ghost Lemur]

Thanks for the suggestions and support slowpoke.

I'm definitely wanting to keep to my $5k limit. Might be slightly skewed in sticking to models which are still available new. So am definitely open to the models you mentioned. Although the DR doesn't seem to offer any benefit over the DR-Z except maybe slightly cheaper, looks heavier. The XT has a drum brake at rear (why I'll never know). The TTR is on the list but is more expensive age vs price, hense why I highlighted the new prices on bikes. It's what I'm using to calculate the price vs age considerations that I'm going to have to factor in when making a final decision.

*Spot the guy with too much time to think about bikes, but no bike to ride*

[clint640]

There's bugger all difference between a DRZ250 & a KLX250 so why get your panties in a knot? If that's the kind of thing you want just buy the damn Suzuki.

They've been advertising those Pampera's for $5995 which would be a great buy, there must be some around. Way more boogie than the 4 strokes & a low seat height too.

Cheers
Clint

[merv]

We've been talking about dual sport bikes and adventure riding a lot on many threads have you not seen those?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31502

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31403

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=32931

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=32714

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27185

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=22980

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2336

(Somehow Pukemanu Adventure ride is now in Auckland?)

and probably many other threads if you look for them.

We have 4 trail bikes between me and mrs merv. I have a WR250F and the XR250L, she has a DR650 and an XT250. You will see in the threads I have said don't buy the Suzuki DRZ because it is only a cosmetic upgrade of the DR250R I had and that had too many flaws for a dirt bike.

For what you are talking about - commuting and trail riding and a 250, I'd say buy the Honda and you won't be disappointed. It is smooth, beautifully built, reasonably fast and light on fuel and good in the dirt - plush suspension (upside down front end), great brakes. Down side is it is slightly heavy at 128kg but for adventure type riding not a worry - tops out around 140km/hr.

I wouldn't recommend the WR250 for what you want (Honda CRF250X is in the same category) - it is a race bike that revs to 13,500 - it is fantastic on adventure rides - I laugh inside my helmet as I ride mine it is so fast and light(will easily do over 160) , but as a commuter forget it. On the road it is just OK but compared to a trail type bike like the XR it is harsh, drinks gas, and you going to end up rebuilding the top end of the engine too often. I'm only 165cm tall - how about you? WR has stock seat height of close to a metre high - I lowered mine.

Yamaha were selling the road legal TTR250 cheap recently for about $7,500 - could be worth a look - they are tall.

The XT250 we have is light just over 100kg so similar in weight to the WR that's why Mrs got hers for dirt riding and it is very low seat height only 810mm compared to XR250L at 875mm and TTR250 at 910mm. It has a damn good set of gear ratios and would suit the commuter plus trail requirement, but it is a 225cc bike not a full 250 so is a bit down on grunt and isn't as hard out as the others e.g. doesn't even have a crossbrace on the handlebars. Similar to kawasaki Sherpa - they could be worth a look and are just as cheap and a full 250.

We seem to have been anti green in our family so have never owned Kawasakis so can't comment on them but if the KLX or KLR were available I guess they'd be worth a look. It doesn't seem that long ago they were available in the shops because I glanced a new one at Motorad at the time.

I see now you are talking about a $5k limit - you'd only get an older import XR250L for that as the new ones haven't been a round more than about a year. I also see you said you felt like a midget next to the Suzuki - so you can't be very tall.

Good luck with your choice. Remember I'm telling you from experience I wouldn't recommend the Suzuki. The DR650 is a different kettle of fish and my comments don't hold for that which is why we still have one a 2004 model, but then not a 250.

[Motu]

Have you had a look at the elecric start XR250? I'm sure Merv will be along soon to rave about his.It's what Honda should have made years ago,it's not too tall and pretty light really.The DRZ250 just looks ''old'',you'd think after the DRZ400 they could do the same thing in a 250....but you can get lowering links for them.

That's an impressive KLX250 thread on ADVrider,good to see them getting into a 250.When I first heard about them I thought they were the Jap import steel tank KLX250 I saw a couple of in Red Barron,but it appears it's the genuine KLX chassis with the electric start motor.And it's a damn shame we can't get them,maybe there will be some used imports come in soon - maybe you could talk to a dealer,I know they have buyers in Japan and can find what you want.

I was not looking forward to a kickstart dirt bike.The levers are so high these days,and with short legs and stiff hips starting one on the down side of a hill would be impossible - although I don't have too much trouble with the TLR200,but it is lower.Another thing I wasn't looking forward to was the lack of power,I was just going to have to accept it as part of going to a small bike - but 2 stroke power solved that! Perhaps a closer look at the Gas Gas,it's the closest to a DT230....a Pampera would be nice,but I don't think it fits your criteria,it's too off road.
.

[Transalper]

as I'm a short (read: ~5'10" when I'm not slouching) and skinny (read: 60Kg). So as you can see even when I have my full licence I'm not going to be in any rush to upgrade.

Shit, i'm 5'10" (that's not short, it's average) and only 58kg when last weighed a couple of weeks ago, and i've been moderately dirtbiking a Transalp. You have unlimited options.
Admit I haven't read the whole thread, but we are getting a DR250-Djebel for my partner (about 5'7", 60 something kg).
Not as full on off road as a race breed DRZ but is a little lower and a dam sight more comfortable on road and still a bloody good off roader.
PS Dirt Action Services can lower stuff quite well beond factory settings.

[warewolf]

Here's some thoughts on the DR-Z250, which I've owned for 3 years. It's now for sale, because my requirements have changed, but it's been one of the best value, most versatile bikes I've owned. It's not been listed for sale yet despite having been prepped (i.e. a more thorough wash and photograph) because I'm not sure I want to part with it, partly because it's just so godd@mn useful!! [Edit]OK it is now for sale, $5,750 negotiable.[/Edit]

Bear with me while I give you the ad as an introduction: it's a Dec 2001 model, 21Kkm on the clock, fully set up with road tyres (ME33/ME55A) on the original rims, ventura pack rack, full MX knobbies on the second set of rims with rim locks, lower gearing etc. Front suspension has been tweaked and rear shock re-valved and regularly serviced by Craig at Coleman's. (The difference over a stocker is dramatic.) WOF & rego current.

It's been well maintained, but looks a bit rough up close because it's been well used. The plastics are scratched up and the lower frame rails ditto. It was already down this path when I bought it, so figured it was too late to worry about decent protection.

It's completely standard in the engine department. You can bump them up about 10% with a staintune and rejet. It tops out in the high-130s kph (closed course, officer). 118kg and 22rwhp standard. You're not that different physically from myself, around 172cm 67kg.

In Auckland it was used as a daily commuter. Occasionally it goes out for a sprotsbike-like run on the tar, up to 600km in a day. In between, the mirrors & indicators come off, the wheels get swapped, and it gets ridden on trail rides, such as any Power Adventures ride, Epic Events - stuff like that. It's done some adventure rides in there, too.

OK, that's why I want to keep it! Why do I want to sell it? I now work from home so don't need a cheap commuter. I've got another bike that is a dual-purpose for adventure rides. I want to do more serious trail rides and I want a lighter bike to do it. And I reckon it's worth more to me than anyone else...tough call. I'd take $6K for it and all spares if it was offered right now. Might even throw in the grip heaters.

Anyway, sorry to throw this ad into your thread, (not really) but it is on topic!

[thehollowmen]

You sound like a pretty mechanically minded guy...

So my question is, if you want performance out of a 250: Why not go for a two stroke?

You could then do almost all the engine stuff yourself..

If not, I'm sure a dealer in australia would be happy to send you over one, but that one new over there without shipping is still probably out of your price range. Any Kawasaki dealer *should* (but may not want to) source you parts to that engine.

[warewolf]

And now on to thoughts about the other bikes.

The TTR250 and DR-Z250 are essentially the same bike out of different companies. The XR250 only differs with it's lack of electric leg - but the current XR250L is almost there (electric leg but softer suspension). All these bikes are around ten years or so old in their current form, and go back a further ten or so. The DR/Z is unchanged since at least back to 1995. Oh, and they are all the old school trail bikes; rugged and reliable, but still the good thing in their day. The new hi-po 4Ts aren't the same thing, really.

The jap import adventure versions, i.e. the Raid, Djebel and Baja respectively, generally are heavier, have luggage racks, better lights, all electric starts, bigger tin tanks, but are softer suspended with cheaper, lower-spec components, maybe lower seat height. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but understand they are set up quite differently to the trail-spec models. A plus for your commuting but a minus for the serious off-road stuff.

A friend has a Pampera 250. I don't think it's ridden much, might be interested in selling. It's a good learner bike in many respects but the suspension really lets it down. Almost dangerous I'd say. It's faster than the DR-Z but with substantially inferior suspension. Don't know if it's easily fixed.

You'll note I haven't mentioned the Big K!

You might be right about availability in new bikes, but used: the world is your oyster!