A time to stop complaining?

[Lou Girardin]

Merkins can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't want their version of democracy.
The answer is Guantanamo Bay and the 'Patriot' Act.
Freedom? Freedom to do as we say, more like.

[SARGE]

Merkins can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't want their version of democracy.
The answer is Guantanamo Bay and the 'Patriot' Act.
Freedom? Freedom to do as we say, more like.

not a big fan of the Patriot Act Lou.. but if it protects my family i'l live with it.. as far as Gitmo.. go for it .. the more the merrier.. as far as i know, if they wanted to be protected by the Geneva Conventions, they would join up with a uniformed military and fight like men.. not hiding behind women and murdering civillians..

Lou, i really respect your opinion, even if i disagree with it. you make very passionate yet reasonable arguments. i think you are looking at this through the eyes of someone who considers himself safe in NZ. there i no way we, as civilians, can kno what gos on behind locked doors.. what if your family was under threat though.. what if Al Qeda/ Hezbollah/ the IRA had NZ in its target list though?.. wouldnt you demand that SOMEONE stand up and grab the bull by the balls so to speak, no matter the cost?

MY family i consider under threat.. (the civillans, not the nieces and nephews that are deployed in the ME).. any day the cowards could walk into a mall or movie theatre or sporting event with a vest full of explosives, or worse a chemical/biological/ radiation dirty bomb and detonate it.

now.. yea.. its not pretty bro.. all those poor Muslims at Gitmo are being humiliated, threatened, allegedly tortured, punched, kicked etc...

good for them.. get the intel you need to have any way you can get it.. in fact .. step it up a level..damn the hippies ..this is war

[Mental Trousers]

I wish administrations would actually send letters like that one and follow through. It's great seeing tree hugging hippies put in their place.

As for Guantanamo Bay, those that are incarcerated there made a choice. They choose to act outside the rules for combatants and not be covered by the Geneva Convention. They willingly gave up their rights.

Slight tangent, but if it was up to me all of those who criminal acts that involve severe violence, children or of a sexual nature would lose their rights as human beings. After all, if they choose to act in a way that totally disregards somebodies rights, they are choosing to give up their rights.

[Sniper]

Slight tangent, but if it was up to me all of those who criminal acts that involve severe violence, children or of a sexual nature would lose their rights as human beings. After all, if they choose to act in a way that totally disregards somebodies rights, they are choosing to give up their rights.

Nicely said. Then they are free game. Target shooting is getting boring now, I could use some live target practise.

[SARGE]

Nicely said. Then they are free game. Target shooting is getting boring now, I could use some live target practise.

i only shoot 'Cans.. : giggle :

[Lou Girardin]

No sarge it's not war. It's a neo-con adventure.
Personally, I think of myself as more civilised than these so-called terrorists, many of your politicians too for that matter. I wouldn't stoop to what either side is doing.
The Europeans beat their terrorists by treating them as criminals and applying the law against them. Current tactics will see your lot kicked out of Iraq, Afghanistan and anywhere else in the East, you guys just don't (or don't want to) understand who you're dealing with.
Fighting fire with fire just makes for a bigger conflagration

[ManDownUnder]

The problem I have Gitmo is the apparent lack of due process. Establishing the level of involvement (aka innocence) has got to be a fundamental priority, and those incarcerated need to be able to challenge the fact they're being held.

If they're being held for good reason - then hold 'em and do what the military do best. I have my own personal feelings on what's acceptable bu then I also know my loved one have never been in immediate danger, and I don't have the experience of being the sharp end of high speed lead.

Edit - Oh dear God - I'm on the same side as Lou...

[Sniper]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

[SARGE]

No sarge it's not war. It's a neo-con adventure.
Personally, I think of myself as more civilised than these so-called terrorists, many of your politicians too for that matter. I wouldn't stoop to what either side is doing.
The Europeans beat their terrorists by treating them as criminals and applying the law against them. Current tactics will see your lot kicked out of Iraq, Afghanistan and anywhere else in the East, you guys just don't (or don't want to) understand who you're dealing with.
Fighting fire with fire just makes for a bigger conflagration

i tend to take the Fire-Break view of things Lou..

the Europeans have beaten Terrorism?????

tell that to London, Spain, etc.. im sure they will be happy with the news..

the Spanish FOLDED when the fire go too hot..the terrorists won

in WW2.. the French collaborated with Nazi Germany to stop themselfs from being wiped off the planet.. that is weakness and cowardice.. Never forget in World War 2 France was sending its Jews to concentration camps even before Germany demanded it..

What keeps me sane is to remember that the real purpose behind the D-Day Invasion wasn't that we liberated an ungrateful, over-rated, soapless nation, but that we destroyed Hiler's war machine... history DOES repeat Lou.. ya gotta bread a few eggs to make an omlet

Lou.. your Vichy is showing..

[Indiana_Jones]

Fighting fire with fire just makes for a bigger conflagration

Best option against fighting this fire, or we could let the fire burn us

Anyways, go out in a blaze of glory

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

the Spanish FOLDED when the fire go too hot..the terrorists won

Yep

I can't believe they bowed down to them, fucking girls lol

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

You could say the same about the Romans... or any of the superpowers throughout history.

It's unfortunate that being a superpower kinda puts you into the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" camp.

What if they had done this, what if they had done that... what if they HADN'T etc. It's easy to find topical examples, and second guess them till the cows come home, but none of that second guessing is going to be provably accurate, so it's only good for arguing over (preferably with beer involved, a hint of violence then women coming along to calm things down by disrobing and cracking open the baby oil).

Anyway - you get the idea.

What I think we can/should focus on is the manner by which things ARE being done. Gitmo being the example at hand.

I have my opinions, but they're not tempered with combat experience, which gives them a perspective of their own. I'm certainly not qualified to talk about getting information from prisoners - I know nothing about it, and I'm probably too damned nice for it anyway. I'd be getting them a hanky while Sarge might be seeing if he can get just a hint of blood...

Due process - that is something I'm inclined to comment on...

[Lou Girardin]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

Different times, different enemy, different motivation.
Merkins do better when they help out in other peoples wars rather than start their own.

[SARGE]

You could say the same about the Romans... or any of the superpowers throughout history.

It's unfortunate that being a superpower kinda puts you into the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" camp.

What if they had done this, what if they had done that... what if they HADN'T etc. It's easy to find topical examples, and second guess them till the cows come home, but none of that second guessing is going to be provably accurate, so it's only good for arguing over (preferably with beer involved, a hint of violence then women coming along to calm things down by disrobing and cracking open the baby oil).

Anyway - you get the idea.

What I think we can/should focus on is the manner by which things ARE being done. Gitmo being the example at hand.
I know nothing about it, and I'm probably too damned nice for it anyway. I'd be getting them a hnanky while Sarge might be seeing if he can get just a hint of blood...
.

mate .. i'd be going for more than a HINT of blood..

blood makes the grass grow,,

[Lou Girardin]

i tend to take the Fire-Break view of things Lou..

the Europeans have beaten Terrorism?????

tell that to London, Spain, etc.. im sure they will be happy with the news..

the Spanish FOLDED when the fire go too hot..the terrorists won

..

I'm talking about Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades et al. The 70's terrorists.
You know, history. The thing Merkins never learn from.
BTW. Those cans you shoot. Wouldn't be MexiCANS and Puerto RiCANS perchance?