Braided lines

[sAsLEX]

Also Cola , older rubber lines can allow the ingress of moisture into the the fluid, this is bad!

Where this is bad is that when real hot the moiusture goes to steam which is compressiable *sp* , ie you squeeze the lever and instead of pushing the pads into the discs it just squishes the gas.

[98tls]

do it....as long as you buy quality it willl work.....be warned that the dickhead at your local bike shop wont know what your on about....if they dont have the right numbers on them they will be dickheads,

[sAsLEX]

Have ya met Affman? Ask him dude...

Mate my callipers have been on and off my bikes a fair few times..........and guess what no loctite and never "lost" a calliper!

Loctite is not a substitute for common sense!

[Shadows]

under heavy use, regular rubber brake lines absorb the heat of the brake discs and pads as the fluid travels around. What happens to rubber when you warm it up? It expands. This is a contributing factor to brake fade when running hot (track days, fast coro loop etc).

Hang about.... thinking about it I can't understand how heat expansion of the rubber line can really be a factor.
I agree that the outside diameter of the line would increase when heated, but with heat expansion wouldn't the inside diameter of the line also reduce at the same rate?
If heat could be such a factor wouldn't that actually make braided lines prone to closing up internally and becoming dangerous, or am I spouting bullshit?
The idea of hydraulic pressure increasing both inside and outside diameters of the line, making the brakes less effective due to reduced pressure being applied to the piston, makes more sense to me.

[The Pastor]

Im going to replace all brake lines, brake discs, pads and calipers (excpet for the cailper at the back)

My bike will stop quicker than helen can get to the rugby!

[Shadows]

My bike will stop quicker than helen can get to the rugby!

Awwwwwww don't be like that, she pays your wages!

[Dafe]

What Speedie said,

and also, with the braided lines, you can now run Dot 5 brake fluid, which has a far higher boiling point than the standard brake fluid. Hence, the prevention of brake fade.

Braided brakes also pressurise better, Hence the stronger feel in the brake lever. A slight touch will now have a far stronger braking effect.

[Colapop]

Can that be a bad thing? I remember as a kid getting chucked over the handlebars when I sqeezed the wrong brake too hard!

[Motu]

The brake hoses are also designed to give the brake system ''feel'' by giving some flex,in the same way as a kink was often put in a rod operated rear brake,the flex gives it more feel.Also the rubber hoses,new or old,allow water to pass through into the fluid - it's the boiling of the water that gives the spongey feel,not the brake hoses.A completely solid steel piped system is not hydroscopic.I'm not sure about the construction of stainless hoses,but I expect they still have a rubber inner liner,this will still allow water in - the stainless cover is to stop expansion.

[Postie]

What Speedie said,

and also, with the braided lines, you can now run Dot 5 brake fluid, which has a far higher boiling point than the standard brake fluid. Hence, the prevention of brake fade.

Braided brakes also pressurise better, Hence the stronger feel in the brake lever. A slight touch will now have a far stronger braking effect.

You can use DOT 5 with normal rubber hose's too, you can even use DOT 5.1 if you want. DOT 4 is recommended because its less hydroscopic then 5 or 5.1 which means you don't need to change it as often, and since your average joe very rarely changes the brake fluid as much as they should, especially in a car, they recommend DOT 4.

[Shadows]

Buggy kinda explained it further up, but not quite. You get brake fade because the discs get hot, causing the fluid to heat, causing the rubber lines to warm up, which makes the rubber lines soft! So when you squeeze the lever forcing hot fluid in the line again, it "balloons" due to softness. Once that happens there is not as much force applied to the calipers.....brake fade..............................

Thats all, its not a hard concept to grasp

Softness, rather than expansion, caused by heat is what you are saying. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd better lay off the I'm getting stoopid.

[bobsmith]

Softness, rather than expansion, caused by heat is what you are saying. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd better lay off the I'm getting stoopid.

Also, when you heat a tube of whatever material, the inner diameter of the hose will tend to enlarge as the material expends, think about a steel ball and a steel ring that is very very tight, when you heat the ring, you'll find that the hole gets bigger and you can put the ball through easily.

When the hose gets hot, as the inner diameter AND the outer diameter gets larger together and the distance between the inner surface and outer surface will stay about the same. Because of the diameter change of the hose though, there will be more area in the ring formed between inner surface area and the outer one which is where that expension is happening....

does that make sence? if I had a picture it would be much easier to explain...

[Lou Girardin]

Brake fade is a loss of friction coefficient of the pads due to excess heat. Excess travel is caused by expansion of brake components due to heat and the boiling of water vapour in the brake fluid. (Sometimes the fluid itself boils.

[bugjuice]

You can use DOT 5 with normal rubber hose's too, you can even use DOT 5.1 if you want. DOT 4 is recommended because its less hydroscopic then 5 or 5.1 which means you don't need to change it as often, and since your average joe very rarely changes the brake fluid as much as they should, especially in a car, they recommend DOT 4.

DOT5 is something like fluid for hydrolics or something or other.. 5.1 is for brakes. Don't know what the big difference is, but it's a mistake to get it wrong!

Some people say you should never use 5.1.. no idea why.. I do

[sAsLEX]

DOT5 is something like fluid for hydrolics or something or other.. 5.1 is for brakes. Don't know what the big difference is, but it's a mistake to get it wrong!

Some people say you should never use 5.1.. no idea why.. I do

See what imdyn says below.

Oh and Motu I had already pointed out the water ingress through rubber tubing.