F3 Rules, what ya all reckon?

[Kickaha]

I think shaun has hit the nail on the head--How many of you guys are actually racing nationals in F3 ?

Just because they dont race F3 in the Nationals doesn't make there opinion any less valid, I didn't see you at all the rounds and I don't think Shaun races F3 either

I think a HP cap is worthless unless other stuff like suspension, brakes, tyres are also controlled

[Blackflagged]

Regarding comments from non racers.The rules may get a few more racing!Thats there intention(i believe)And maybe The post classic Pre 89 could ad f3,as they basically have f1 and f2 now.There a lot of bike that could race pre 89,f3,and be very compeditive.And let the rest move on.
Ps- heard some talk of a class for modified twin 650`s,and gp250`s,keep those who have modified there sv`s happy,or maybe....just leave it as it is?

5 cents worth(not worth much these days)

[Shaun]

Just because they dont race F3 in the Nationals doesn't make there opinion any less valid, I didn't see you at all the rounds and I don't think Shaun races F3 either

I think a HP cap is worthless unless other stuff like suspension, brakes, tyres are also controlled

No one said it did

The point to my question on who is posting that races is to try to get a majority opinion

You are write, I do not race F3, but I am dam sure I will do all that I possibly can to Help make racing better in our country, as shown by all the young racers I help

[Chops]

I race. But not at the nats...yet.

[Shaun]

I race. But not at the nats...yet.

Key word is
























yet.

[Brian d marge]

I found 2 cents * actually i cashed up my five cents * so am using some of it here
Seems to me that the racing classes in NZ should have a clear goal or aim
so that someone starting out with stars in there eyes, can when they reach the upper levels move up, on or sideways and have Skills that are of use to team owners.

Example would be Rossi, started out on 125 now at the top level is winning , because he can work WITH engineers to dial in a bike.. If I sent someone out on my MX bike , with the wrong spring rate but with the preload jacked up to give correct sag numbers , I wonder how many poeple would come back and ask if the spring rate is correct, or even mention preload ?

Also as PT pointed out, the jump from one class to another needs to be controlled as a jump from say a 400 cc to a national level bike could be to much of a financial jump

I would like to see, say * as an example* ,,Class A a bike costing a grand to buy , No changes Class B bikes costing 2k to buy Changes to the suspension FROM this approved list
Class C bikes costing 3k , changes to the engine AND suspension ....

I am not saying word the rules , to say yoour bike must be purchased for 1000 dollars
What I am saying is word the rules or influence the class so that the bikes running there TEND to cost that amount ..Buckets for example ... cant think of any bike out there that are running the owner to 10 k a year ,,, no most buckets are around the 500 to 1k mark

so as one progressed through the sport , you would be picking up sponsors , bike set up and race craft, You could sell the bike at the end of the season , and with a small amount of money progress up the ladder, and when you were offered a dream ride from a great team such as Royal Enfield you would be well versed in translating what happened on the track to the engineers/mechanic setting up your bike ,,, IMHO useable

I am sorry I am not converstant with the rules that were offered at the begining of this thread, but I do think that NZ riders would be a lot better equipped for the lime light IF they had a thougher grounding in the art of setting up a bike and race craft....and there would be a lot more turnover of machines and one assumes fuller grids , if the steps were financially small enough. ( the cost of travelling is always going to stay the same ..)

As for testing engines , that would be easy, MCNZ would specify which dynos and operators were to be used in the major centers and in case of argument, BOTH partys would stump up the cost,,, At national meetings the dyno would be available ( there is usually someone at a nat meeting running a dyno ,,there was one at the chch A & P show !!! for example

We have a few experts in NZ for various bit ,like engine , suspension ..Im sure they could draw up a list of approved suppliers and/or mods

Just a thought

Stephen

Ps must awfully boring going round and round with no up and down bits

[Shaun]

Just to quote you first mate


I am sorry I am not converstant with the rules that were offered at the begining of this thread, but I do think that NZ riders would be a lot better equipped for the lime light IF they had a thougher grounding in the art of setting up a bike and race craft....and there would be a lot more turnover of machines and one assumes fuller grids ,

if the steps were financially small enough. ( the cost of travelling is always going to stay the same ..)


There it is again, financially small enough! it's motor sport dude, and if any one is serious about making it there career, they better get used to having no other life becuse they just spent there last cent, Kiwi's are really are a tight bunch of whinging twats who want everything for nothing, hence the red shit hole The Wharehouse is so popular, now I'm starting to rant on.

Ok what about, For the Nationals F3 Class, we go with Frosty's 75hp cap, ( Logistics of how to police to be soughted later) and allow anything you want to do to your chassis simple!

For Club Scene racing ( Because that is where you start with the basics and then move on to the Nats) We do not allow Modified twins in to the F3 class, ( Key word Modified) Std can still race.

We could combine 400's Std SV's and 125's together, to make the focus of this being the learning grade at the club champs, as well as the low cost class at the club scene.

Modified Twins race in F2, I Know I know, THATS NOT FARE, THEY HAVE 600.s in there, well wippy shit, look at it this way

People with Modified twins in the F2 class at the winter series racing are either riding dads bike, which must mean they want to go forward if that amount of money has left there pocket, so the finances do not really come into it, or are there for pre season nats testing! or really only do the Club scene, so what does it really matter where you come, hey, you are only doing it for fun, otherwise you would be doing the Nats! ( Not putting anybody down before someone jumps on my back)

There is approx 18 fully modified SV's racing in NZ that I know off, and I know where 3 more are getting built at the moment.

Is there anyway we can escape from the concept of we are owed a break in life here in NZ, I am sure the attitude used to be

Can do Will DO or I will give a bloody good go

PS Stephen, You hit the nail on the head, if a young hotshot was to appear ( There are a couple showing promise of world ambitions and abilitiy) how the hell would they ever be able to get a good ride over seas without knowing how to set a bike up? and how do you set up a bike with no adjustments?

Now bugger off and go eat some Miso Rammen for me and some YASAHETAAME man I miss that food, and my local Japa shop has shut down, at least I can still buy Kirin.

[Brian d marge]

Well If I can do it I am sure others can !, This year for example I have had a crack at a few races , (now I admit I am the wortest racer there is , possible The worst ,,,BUT I am out there ! ..( all right so I hire my self out as a mobile chicane ,, ) But this year I have had a stab at the local club cup , an big Enduro a trail ride in NZ and a X country in NZ I learnt a lot from the christchurch one .. lije your track are all heavy on the low speed shim stacks , large fluid flows and soft stacks

So while I cant chuck money at things I can get the same results by putting my thinking cap on ! , an example would be My cr at the moment ,,,the clutch is way to stiff compared with the 06 models , ,,Ill get there ,,Just takes a bit of thinkin thats all !

So if you aint got money you just have to think smarter ,, everything can be done ,,,ya just got to try thats all ,,( damn that was the last of me 2 cents worth ..)

Better bugger of then ,

Summers gone now ( yahoo ) so I am back in the garage , Motegi is comming up the typhoon season is looking like a short one .. and the local super market is running a special on single malt Islay wiskey ( 3000 yen again yahoo ) thats the news from Lake woebegone ....

Stephen

[ZorsT]

There it is again, financially small enough! it's motor sport dude, and if any one is serious about making it there career, they better get used to having no other life becuse they just spent there last cent, Kiwi's are really are a tight bunch of whinging twats who want everything for nothing, hence the red shit hole The Wharehouse is so popular, now I'm starting to rant on.

I can see your point, but what about all the poor students?
Right now I have great fun on my RG(s), but in the future I will be upgrading. F3 is the logical choice, and a $3000 400 would be the bike i'd use. If this 400 wasn't competitive at a club level, i wouldn't bother... I'm sure others would think the same. Isn't lack of numbers how classes die?

Ok what about, For the Nationals F3 Class, we go with Frosty's 75hp cap, ( Logistics of how to police to be soughted later) and allow anything you want to do to your chassis simple!

For Club Scene racing ( Because that is where you start with the basics and then move on to the Nats) We do not allow Modified twins in to the F3 class, ( Key word Modified) Std can still race.

We could combine 400's Std SV's and 125's together, to make the focus of this being the learning grade at the club champs, as well as the low cost class at the club scene.

I think this could work. Would the 250 2-smokers be included in there?

[cowpoos]

I can see your point, but what about all the poor students?

errrrrr......what about the poor students???
if you wanna go racing get a job.....earn some money....other people do it!!
why should there be a special dispensation for poor people? if your poor...go earn some money.....its quite simple....and I'm not singling you out....goes for everyone thats whinging poverty....I've never been so broke in my life right now,since I've started racing....but I'm not complianing....and I know I'll have no regrets....

Look at texmo.....he's on the bones of his arse....working huge hours...two jobs....all so he can race....

if you have a passion for something....you'll always find a way to do it....
and if you want to be compeditive....you'll have to find the money....and you'll have to work....just like you can't just start a new job and expect to be at the top of your chosen vocation right away earning the big dollars....and thats a attatude far to bloody comon in young people these days....

end of rant.....I need a cuppa

[ZorsT]

errrrrr......what about the poor students???
if you wanna go racing get a job.....earn some money....other people do it!!
why should there be a special dispensation for poor people? if your poor...go earn some money.....its quite simple....and I'm not singling you out....goes for everyone thats whinging poverty....I've never been so broke in my life right now,since I've started racing....but I'm not complianing....and I know I'll have no regrets....

What i was trying to convey, is that a poor student (or many other people) even when living on the bones of their arse, cannot afford to buy an SV, then spend $10K to get it competitive. Even a $3K 1989 400 isn't an easy thing to buy for some people (me).

The next step in racing from streetstock shouldn't cost 10 times more to be competitive.

You are correct in saying that people that don't have jobs that complain about not being able to afford racing need a reality check though, there aren't many things that are more frustrating.

[cowpoos]

What i was trying to convey, is that a poor student (or many other people) even when living on the bones of their arse, cannot afford to buy an SV, then spend $10K to get it competitive. Even a $3K 1989 400 isn't an easy thing to buy for some people (me).

well you will just have to settle for being on a uncompeditive bike....

theres no need to make a rule change then is there?

I Think the rules are fine how they are.....in a couple of years sv650's will get alot cheaper.....more ex race SV's ern's etc will come up for sale....and all this debate will be forgotton about....

the only reason why this debate came up is obviously because some people without the $$$ to race compeditivly are crying foul !!!

tall poppy syndrome really.......hmmm

[kickingzebra]

Half the reason you race is to better your own self, it just so happens that the measuring stick is often other people (aye mikey

If you can't be on the latest greatest, then ride what you got until you know without a doubt you are riding it as hard as it can be ridden!

Then when the bug really bites, you can get soo addicted you'll go without to feed it, and before you know it you'll be on a nice and shiney new beast.

The goals of the rules are good, but I think (on the club scene anyway) you are racing against yourself first and foremost, and hence the rules should reflect that by not penalising those who can do something to make the bike run better.
Maybe a run your own time system like at the drags. I say I want to do 1:16s this time, and If I am closer to the mark than someone who wants to run 1:10 but does a 1:08 instead, then points awarded?!

I think a dual score system could be used, actual place vs place for class of bike. I dunno.

[slowpoke]

If you can't be on the latest greatest, then ride what you got until you know without a doubt you are riding it as hard as it can be ridden!

Yup, totally 100% agree.

Most of us are never going to ride all the National rounds yet we are getting bent out of shape about something that will never concern us.

It's getting away from the topic of Shaun's thread (yes mate, I can hear you throwing spanners around the workshop) but the biggest winge is about having a competive bike when realistically 80% of us (me included) are totally and completely uncompetive in the skill department.

FFS, I probably had one of the quicker bikes in my Clubmans class (still 6/7 years old) but I got toasted and roasted by theoretically much slower bikes. I couldn't give a rat's arse, 'cos I still met my goals of:
1) just making it to the track at all (working away from home)
2) having a blast

So you want to have an ultra-competive bike? Why, so you can hide your inability? So you can lose by less? For most of us the last 5% that determines winning and losing races is not going to be affected one iota by having an upside down front end on our SV or another 5hp. Get real, most of us are there for an adrenalin rush, a bit of craic with our mates and the enjoyment of being around bikes. Just enjoy riding the wheels off what ya got and if someone hands you a trophy at the end of the day it's a bonus.

[Shaun]

The above 3 posts are so clear, simple, direct, and accurate, what they have said is a fact of life, and Kickinzebra has only just started to race the club scene same with MR POOS, it really only takes a little less self indolgence to see that a lot of what has been going on is simply as COW POOS put it, the bloody NZ Tool Poppy Syndrome.

I have Introduced Paul Stewart ( Road racing commisioner) to this web site and the F3 rules discussion threads that are going on. PS DONT EXPECT HIM TO REPLY TO YOU ON THIS BOARD

Now this is the real funny bit that does not surprise me one little bit, because NZ's in the Road Racing scene ( As that is all I know about) have always been a bunch a whinging twats, that stand around having group huddles and fixing the world, but when it comes time for action, they all run, to busy? yea what ever!

So Stop blaiming MNZ for every god danm thing that goes wrong that you do not like. It is not a perfect world.

Now we have this thing called the tinternet, and we all just sit here banging away on our board and feeling big and brave towards the world, but cannot even write a fuckin lettar to our commisioner ( As he has asked all you/us to you) offering your thoughts on the rules ( Paul is a very good bloke who works hard for us for F.O.C) How the hell can he do his job when no one replies to his requests, how many of the people that have had there say on here have bothered to get of the internet and this false world, and put pen to paper ( So to speak) How many of you check our web site www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz ? Thought so.

2- How many 2! The other guy know who he is, and I know me ( Which one of me it is at the moment is beside the point)

2 other people that I am aware of have also written to him to help him make decisisons, these 2 others do not even ride in F3, but like myself they have a strong passion for our sport and a lot of experience in it, 2 of us combined have 40 years of history in our sport.

Time to go and play else where now, but please people, keep the big picture in mind here, not just your own pocket, and again as MR POOS said, you get nothing in life for free, so go get a job or another one, or go do a sport that you can be competitive in for 50cents, and stop whinging about this sport.