F3 Rules, what ya all reckon?

[diesel pig]

gpercivl, The only machines in MNZ's F3 regs as set out in Appendix B of the MNZ manual that must use there standard production frames are the Two-stroke multi-cylinder 250cc bikes. The rules do not restrict the what frames can be used in the other capacity Groups in the F3 regulations, So the examples you used in your post are within the rules.

[gpercivl]

gpercivl, The only machines in MNZ's F3 regs as set out in Appendix B of the MNZ manual that must use there standard production frames are the Two-stroke multi-cylinder 250cc bikes. The rules do not restrict the what frames can be used in the other capacity Groups in the F3 regulations, So the examples you used in your post are within the rules.

Thanks diesel pig, yep, you're correct on re-reading it only applies to the 250 2 strokes.

Hmmm, now I can go put my 450 motor into a GP-250 frame and suspension and it will be good for at least one year but definitely not in the spirit of F3 in the first chapter of Appendix B "primarily for Production Based machines".

Of course I'll get KK to ride it as he's already as quick as me on my R6

Should be fun a new use for those 250 GP bikes that no ones riding these days, cheers, Greg

[FROSTY:Me]

The HP thing isnt the greatest idea. Its not hard to flatten the HP off with a few jetting tweaks or altering advance etc before the Dyno run and then later on re jetting or adjusting advance etc. Engine still sealed and those 5 or whatever hp gained back again.

These rules do make sence with a few minor tweaks.

Ironic thing is a few years ago when the SV was introduced MNZ got hold of the leading f3 riders at national level as well as a few other people to get there thoughts on how the rules should be set up. These proposed rules that are coming about now are almost identical to what the majority of us thought would be the way to go. Unfortunatly we were asked but not listened too. How unusual

yep you could do that easy as--I agree--Then I protest you-your bike is impounded and you loose all series points

[Delboy]

So what?, ya protest everyone that beat you because they were faster than you. lol. One way to win i suppose. Surely it dosnt mean they have more hp, they may well be a better rider than you Frosty.

Then comes the issue of having the same Dyno at every meeting in case of Protests. We all know Dynos differ in readouts and say you bike makes 72 HP at Joes Dyno in Auckland then you get protested and get put on Bens Dyno at Invergiggill and it suggests you have 78 HP. No fair. I know of 3 Dynos in Wellington that differ enough to make a difference.

[Hillbilly]

What about setting a the maximum engine output of 80HP at the crankshaft? same rules apply but will allow for the possibility of variances with the Dynos.
If a 125GP single cylinder bike can put out 48hp, what would a 250 twin be capable of producing?

[Toast]

Nice points Shaun…some of which I already agreed with, and some of which were news to me and make a lot of sense (like the SV650 exhaust thing).

Question: Has anyone ever tried to get a one-make series going in NZ? Possibly a chance to get cheaper bikes if a deal is struck with the NZ importer, making it more accessible financially, and then everyone will be on a level playing field…or at least not too skewed by $$$’s.

They have R6 cup etc. overseas, so why not have an SV650 Cup (being the cheapest sports bike I can think of) over here?

[gpercivl]

Yep, Tim Gibbes tried to do that with SV-650's when they first came out. Brian Bernard prepped 8 of them and you could hire them for the race day so all were kept in the same condition/state of tune...so these things have been tried before

[Toast]

That sounds cool, being able to hire a race bike...obviously with no insurance it's a bit of a risk to them...

Maybe it would be easier now with a few more and cheaper SV's on the market?

[Hillbilly]

You can hire Truimph Daytona 600's Supersports racers fully set up at Eastern Creek from the Superbike School. Price per day? Around $200 AUD. The catch - $3,400 bond and charges for excessive tyre wear.

[Chops]

I reckon:
250 2 strokes-as they are, but any fairings allowed.
450's back to 400.
650's restricted motor wise, no restrictions chassis wise- stock SV suspension is a bag of crap.

Try to make the class cheaper to enter into. The 400's and 250's might be old but there is a lot of them mouldering in peoples sheds because their pride and joy isn't competitive anymore against the hot tuned 650's.

Make the older ones competitive again, means young 'uns can afford bikes that are decently competitive.

And can afford the ongoing maintenance.

Just my thoughts

[Cleve]

I reckon:
250 2 strokes-as they are, but any fairings allowed.
450's back to 400.
650's restricted motor wise, no restrictions chassis wise- stock SV suspension is a bag of crap.

Try to make the class cheaper to enter into. The 400's and 250's might be old but there is a lot of them mouldering in peoples sheds because their pride and joy isn't competitive anymore against the hot tuned 650's.

Make the older ones competitive again, means young 'uns can afford bikes that are decently competitive.

And can afford the ongoing maintenance.

Just my thoughts

Agree with that.

[FROSTY:Me]

I love this--its wonderfull---Lets just leave it open slather.
Heck I can spend another 7k on my engine and get 90 plus reliable HP out of it. Ill do the ohlins front end and have a bike that handles like a GP bike.
Sure my Bikes gonna cost 15ooo -but Itll be so much faster than some little 400 or 450.
Unfair advantage--HOW??? ---You guys with the 400's and the stroker 250's just step up to the mark and get my kinda power?
But of course a HP cap is such a stupid idea--
It would be so UGG fair --it would mean 400's and stroker 250's can stay racing and a guy on a production 650 might stand a chance of upsetting the big guns/
dont you lot get it -add a bunch of complicated extra rules --someone/s has to scrutineer and enforce the rules.

[FROSTY:Me]

You can hire Truimph Daytona 600's Supersports racers fully set up at Eastern Creek from the Superbike School. Price per day? Around $200 AUD. The catch - $3,400 bond and charges for excessive tyre wear.

ER um mate its $350 aud plus the price of track day entry--around $500 aud a day -with a tyre contingency so if ya shag a set of tyres they can charge ya.
The trumbys are FERRRY FERRY NOICE TO RIDE MIND YOU

[ajturbo]

I love this--its wonderfull---Lets just leave it open slather.
Heck I can spend another 7k on my engine and get 90 plus reliable HP out of it. Ill do the ohlins front end and have a bike that handles like a GP bike.
Sure my Bikes gonna cost 15ooo -but Itll be so much faster than some little 400 or 450.
.

but will this help your starts????

[Cleve]

I love this--its wonderfull---Lets just leave it open slather.
Heck I can spend another 7k on my engine and get 90 plus reliable HP out of it. Ill do the ohlins front end and have a bike that handles like a GP bike.
Sure my Bikes gonna cost 15ooo -but Itll be so much faster than some little 400 or 450.
Unfair advantage--HOW??? ---You guys with the 400's and the stroker 250's just step up to the mark and get my kinda power?
But of course a HP cap is such a stupid idea--
It would be so UGG fair --it would mean 400's and stroker 250's can stay racing and a guy on a production 650 might stand a chance of upsetting the big guns/
dont you lot get it -add a bunch of complicated extra rules --someone/s has to scrutineer and enforce the rules.

But Frosty a HP cap also has to be scrutineered and I think people have talked about this in previous threads. As I said I agree with limited engine mods to the 650 twins (Kawasaki, Suzuki, Cagiva, Hyosung) - just pipe and ECU - easy enough to monitor??!! And then let the 650's as well as 400's and 250s spend the time and money on suspension and set up. An even and not TOO expensive race class I would imagine...