Auckland first aid course

**Firefight** · 16th June 2004, 16:20

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Onya FF.

If I may be so bold the biggest thing preventing most people from rendering effective first aid is a kit. Perhaps as one who has seen the light on both sides of the fence (biker out on a ride / Emergency services) you could reccommend a list of bits and bobs to carry in a Bikers Aid Kit. Perhaps even sell a few kits?

Over the years I have bought many proper kits to find they have lot's of single purpose but useless bits (saline tablets? Finger bandages?) that usually get thrown away 5 years later having never been used.

yep BD, we can sure recomend what to put in a kit, I agree some of the shit you buy in those so called first aid kits is utterly needless crap.
Not sure about selling kits, I think Mrs F/F has mate who works for one of those big safety co's , later on when we see how the course goes we can look at kits and maybe bulk buy ?

F/F

**Big Dog** · 16th June 2004, 16:29

Originally Posted by Firefight

Not sure about selling kits, I think Mrs F/F has mate who works for one of those big safety co's , later on when we see how the course goes we can look at kits and maybe bulk buy ?

F/F

Sounds like a plan, looks like a plan. So it probably is a plan!

:

**MadDuck** · 16th June 2004, 16:49

about time I do I refresher....forget stuff too easy as I get older.

Also as I end up at the tail (if not lost) on KB rides then best I kinda have an idea of what to do apart from use mobile phone.

**Yarg** · 16th June 2004, 20:20

Yep. i'd more than likely be interested. More knowledge the better.

**Posh Tourer :P** · 16th June 2004, 20:25

Also keep in mind that if you do something on the roadside you can assume liability. For example removing a helmet and paralysing someone. This ought to be stressed at any course. Life threatening situations should be dealt with, anythig more ought to be left to those with the cash to pay for lawyers. This was certainly the case in my first aid courses (wilderness medic). If emergency services are close, dont do anything unless it is immediately life threatening

**MadDuck** · 16th June 2004, 20:38

As FF is a professional I am sure he will make all course goers aware of the hazards, liabilities etc...... best not to pre-empt the content!

Even at basic St Johns first aid training they recommend not removing helmets unless it is life threatening. Its NOT attending courses like these that cause more suffering than need be. Good on ya guys for getting the ball rolling. I am sure anyone attenging will learn a lot.

ummmm...having said that it is always good not to need the skills at all. Ride safe cos I am not sure I wanna give any of ya mouth to mouth. Pretty tough through a helmet visor anyways

**FROSTY:Me** · 16th June 2004, 21:43

Theres a crowd in new lynn who do a range of first aid kit
I think they do bicycle kits that hang round ya waist.
probably pretty good for us bikers too---wadda ya think FF

**curious george** · 16th June 2004, 22:00

Originally Posted by Posh Tourer :P

Also keep in mind that if you do something on the roadside you can assume liability. For example removing a helmet and paralysing someone. This ought to be stressed at any course. Life threatening situations should be dealt with, anythig more ought to be left to those with the cash to pay for lawyers. This was certainly the case in my first aid courses (wilderness medic). If emergency services are close, dont do anything unless it is immediately life threatening

Thats what ACC is for.
If you are the only one around, and made a genuine attempt to help somebody, nobody would blame you, much less sue you!
Re the helmet thing, if you leave it on, what if it's strangling the rider? Would you leave it on? Cut the strap? Could you be sure the extra weight of the helmet won't do any more damage?
Anyway, some of the current thinking is if you are in a situation like that, needing to do CPR on the roadside, it's discouraged. The patient often does badly anyway.
I don't know if I could stand by and not at least try something, but the end results still stand...

**Kwaka-Kid** · 17th June 2004, 05:49

YAY! Im keen as! Right behind XJ/FF/others helping on this one! Just point me to where and ill be there.

And yeah, what exactly is a good first aid kit? I make shade bring like, EVERYTHING (dunno if he remembers to put it in the back of his bike?) but wouldnt have a clue whats mainly needed, just figured if we got it all we should be right.

George id imagine youd carry a pretty comprehensive sponsored first aid kit on rides?

**Firefight** · 17th June 2004, 07:30

Originally Posted by curious george

Thats what ACC is for.
If you are the only one around, and made a genuine attempt to help somebody, nobody would blame you, much less sue you!
Re the helmet thing, if you leave it on, what if it's strangling the rider? Would you leave it on? Cut the strap? Could you be sure the extra weight of the helmet won't do any more damage?
Anyway, some of the current thinking is if you are in a situation like that, needing to do CPR on the roadside, it's discouraged. The patient often does badly anyway.
I don't know if I could stand by and not at least try something, but the end results still stand...

all good points, and will be covered in the course. would prefer to to pre empt(sp?) with fourm debate.

F/F

**Firefight** · 17th June 2004, 07:34

Originally Posted by XJ/FROSTY

Theres a crowd in new lynn who do a range of first aid kit
I think they do bicycle kits that hang round ya waist.
probably pretty good for us bikers too---wadda ya think FF

sounds good, we can get one and check it out, I prefer to make a kit up, and put in what I feel is needed, , but we can still have alook at this one. I carry a very large kit when we go on group rides, which has also been a help for fixing broken bits on bikes(KK would be proud) no # 8 fencing wire.

F/F

**RiderInBlack** · 17th June 2004, 08:06

Fu*ken rusty as. Have not work as a RN since Sept last year but am still reg'd. Have stopped at a few vechile accidents as I feel abilged to as a RN, but am real glad when the Pro's arrive

(Emergency is different to Ward).

Would like to bush-up on the basics and then do an advanced course.

Re: removing the helmet. It's Logics Guys. If the person is alive, breathing, hearts beating and is in not further danger where they are (eg: no fire, no train coming, etc) do not even move them (it's better to stop and/or devert triffic than to move the accident victim). Make them comfortable where they are, and don't let them remove the helmet. Moving them or removing the helmet may caurse more damage to their spinal cord, this could lead to perminate paralysis or death (esecially if the damage is in the neck, which is quite common in MVA's). The helmet might also be the only thing holding their skull together.
If it's life threatening (and they are going to die if you don't move them), then you may need to do this, but it is not recomended if you don't have the training. This because the accident victim will need to be moved in such a way as not to do any further damage to the spine. In the Hospital, a patient with a Cervical (neck) injury needs 4 trained nusres just to roll them (the most experienced RN calling the shots holding the head, one at the shoulders, one at the hip and one at the legs), so needless to say I would not try this on your own. If they are not breathing you may need to take the helmet off, but even I would not be kean to do this without better training. You could carefully loosen the throat lash if it is really restricting breathing, if you can do so without moving the victims head.

The end of the day provention is better than the cure.
As a RN I have been asked to be support rider for organised rides. On one ride a rider asked me if I had a first-aid kit (this was before the ride). I replied "Na, if I see a rider down, I'm going to kick them in the balls

. If they move their fine, if they don't I'm calling the Ambulance. Oh and please don't hold your breath as I'm about as keen as you to give you mouth-to-mouth

". He come back to me after the ride and told me that my little chat made him careful to stay on the bike all day

I told he "provention is better than the cure, hey

". "Yep" he replied

(NB: this only works if your a hairy male RN in full black bike leathers and is not recommend for the good looking

).

**FROSTY:Me** · 17th June 2004, 09:03

Ok guys well I think theres enough interest to get a basic course kicked off.
Im thinking itll be in a couple of weeks time
Ill suss out the first aid kit I can get and Ill be happy to clear out my sitting room for it -unless someone has a better venue
If its Ok FF -Ill pm ya

**FROSTY:Me** · 17th June 2004, 17:53

FF has offered his services for a basic course.
Im hoping He will agree to present at least two of them
We will keep it to groups of 10 but (I hope) there will be at least two.
At this stage the first one wil be at my place in a couple of weeks time.

**Kwaka-Kid** · 17th June 2004, 18:42

IM IN! FIRST ON LIST!

yay!

and yehaw! No 8 fencing wire, what more does the world need? we tried using REALLY THIN tie wire on Hoon's exhaust at taupo last time, round and around as hte bracket had broken, but it didnt pass

so we he had to do a proper job with an alloy strip