It appears the Otara attack was unprovoked

[Zed]

They should round up these little dickweeds the country over, set a curfew for the young people or something, and if caught off to do Limeted Service Volunteer (6 weeks of learning basic military training marching discipline and the like and having to deal not with a friendly constable who is powerless but with the god like Sergant Majors who to them are god) course in Burnam or Wiberia in winter I say!

Alex, you'll fit right in with the coming new world order where those (young & old) who don't conform to the 'new' rules will be rounded up and sent away. What you are proposing is a police state where a curfew is imposed to *control* the unruly...yip, you'll fit right in!

The type of behaviour many of the posts in this thread highlight should shock us all, but because our society has become so desensitised to such acts of violence and outright inhumane treatment, people aren't moved to do anything about it, and if any of you think things are going to improve think again.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

[dnos]

Wow, stuff like this is getting more and more common. And like has been said above, we are becoming used to it. Sure i think that its terrible the amount of murders occuring and all the violence and gang activity. But i am becoming used to hearing about it in the news. Very sad.

I believe that parents are the ones who could have the biggest effect on these types, used to be that EVERY kid or teenager I knew was scared of their mother and father. But now i see both younger kids and older kids who wouldn't give a shit what their parents said and flick them off. Wish I knew what a solution would be but don't.

[Beemer]

Beemer and 98TLS... gotta break it to you... these "Street Gangs" are here already and have been around for some time.

I know they have been around for a while, what I meant was that in our quiet rural settlement, we don't have gangs of yobbos roaming around. Go into Levin and it's another story - any hour of the day or night and you see what are obviously school-aged children roaming around in packs, looking to cause trouble, whether it's smashing someone's letterbox or mugging them.

Hey Zed, thanks for reminding us the end is nigh. Don't forget to bring out your robes and sickle - I'll be in pub if you're looking for me.

[The_Dover]

Fuckin porch monkeys.

I say we send Zed in as a missionary to pacify and convert them, failing that he can bash them about with his bible for a bit and give them the "christian learn".

If it all goes wrong and he ends up in the pot at least they'll have a good feed and be too stuffed to cause more trouble for a few days.

[marty]

cops being charged for kicking young kids arses and telling them to fuck off home. mum and dads are going to be charged for clipping their kids round the ears. what do peopl expect? i don't condone a police state, but i do condone old fashioned values and respect. the old 'unlawful assembly' law should be used more often, but it creats SO much paperwork, and many of these groups are under 17, so the can't be charged anyway, their parents don't care, neither does cyfs.

in the not-too-distant future we will see street cops routinely armed with side arms, (there are a good number already doing so) then it will come down to individuals protecting themselves with their weapon of choice.

[Motu]

what is a nuetral colour FFS!

Green? Well,it is on my bike anyway.

This stuff goes back a long time,I don't know how long,but certainly back to my years as a young teenager in the late '60's.By the time we were 16 the kids I had gone to school with all my life were getting a little out of hand - they were roaming the City streets (not our suburbs) at night in cars (V8s,real ones),they'd find a couple of guys walking,call them out and then set on them...they'd also trash cars too.I decided I didn't want to go to jail just for hanging around with my mates....so I started hanging around with people who on the surface may of seemed worse,but were really great people and still loyal friends today.

But killings were very rare,and young people were seldom involved.I have been recently reminded of what was considered a very serious crime in about 1971 - an old guy was robbed and left in his car,stabbed 17 times with a screwdriver,seriously injured,but not dead.I knew guys who were with the group earlier that night,there was some drama in the car park and they went their seperate ways.The 2 guys who did it went to my school,and some of my friends hung around with them,so I knew who they were.So over 30 years later when my family history was being researched I find both these names as part of my family - it's possible they hung around together because they were cousins,and unknown cousins of mine! One of them had the exact same name as the guy who killed the old man in Wellington...and if I was shown his photo without knowing I'd say - ''hey,he looks just like....''

But this stuff is now far more common - I don't feel safe out at night anymore....

[sAsLEX]

Alex, you'll fit right in with the coming new world order where those (young & old) who don't conform to the 'new' rules will be rounded up and sent away. What you are proposing is a police state where a curfew is imposed to *control* the unruly...yip, you'll fit right in!

ok your solution is?


Aint new rules

sure one of your commandments states "thou shall not kill" does it not!?

[Paul in NZ]

in the not-too-distant future we will see street cops routinely armed with side arms, (there are a good number already doing so) then it will come down to individuals protecting themselves with their weapon of choice.

Ah... The ultimate expression of freedom?

I think this thread needs to be read with the Progressive / union one.

To survive in this country now both parents need to work at least one job and often there is no one at home to check on what the kids are up to.

These kids find solace in dreams of material wealth but have no hope of ever earning enough $$ to obtain half of what they see on TV. The gangs have power over turf and turf is important when the distribution of drugs is the business. The street gangs are feeder gangs to the patched ones etc etc.

Don't worry though. Helen Clarke, Don Brash and the members of the roundtable can all afford really big fences and armed guards so thank goodness the 'leadership' will be OK and will continue to send encouraging messages to the embattled (and shrinking) middle classes.

[Hitcher]

Should make it mandatory for all pedestrians to wear helmets after 10:00pm.

[Hitcher]

I know they have been around for a while, what I meant was that in our quiet rural settlement, we don't have gangs of yobbos roaming around. Go into Levin and it's another story - any hour of the day or night and you see what are obviously school-aged children roaming around in packs, looking to cause trouble, whether it's smashing someone's letterbox or mugging them.

Yep. The hoodies were out in force in Levin at 2:00am Saturday morning. Shuffling the streets with random purpose...

[Patrick]

ok your solution is?


Aint new rules

sure one of your commandments states "thou shall not kill" does it not!?

Shame it doesn't say... "Thou shalt kick the little shites arse all the way home and if mum/dad or both don't care, thou shalt kick their arse too..." and, "if they were to complain about thine kicking, thou shalt receive another kicking from thine neighbour..."

Just a thought...

[Macktheknife]

WARNING: RANT FOLLOWS

Gangs are on the most part quite pathetic, very vocal and tough in the pack situation, but alone, 99% of them are sniveling cowards if confronted.

I stopped for gas in East Tamaki a few years back while on the FZR, and when I came out, two "gang" youths were standing beside my bike, and when I went out to the forecourt, I hoped they were just admiring the bike, but they wouldn't move, ended up getting lippy, then actually made a direct threat with a knife, demanding money, and keys to the bike. I swung my helmet in a wide upwards arc, and put the "knife boy" on his arse, out cold, then with enough adenaline to fuel a jet fighter pumping thru me, I ripped into the second kid (verbally), who was maybe 15 or 16 , who ended up crying.

Not 60 seconds before that, the two of them were "the man", but standing alone, they became little scared children.

Sadly this is more true than we realise... the inner child is traumatised by the loveless upbringing and poor role models in the environment of the young person. Really it is not their fault at all, just a predictable result of the breakdown of the family unit and lack of moral and social grounding. We should all feel sorry for them and try to be more understanding of their needs and insecurities.
Or you could choose a different approach....
These little shits have no understanding of consequence, what is required to confront this problem is a nightly patrol of commited, confident and capable adults. A large group who are willing and able to confront and control these idiots and teach them that these actions are not acceptable in our society. Not by beating the crap out of them (unless in self defence) but just by showing a community resolved to eradicating this kind of problem.
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
Instead of hiding in our homes wailing and moaning about how it isn't safe any more and how this used to be such a nice place etc etc. Get off our collective fat arse and take some action to prevent the situation from deteriorating further. Organise a group of locals who are committed to making a difference in your area/street/town and make a roster for street patrols with torches and cell phones and cameras. All it really takes is for people to stand up and DO something to show they actually WILL NOT TOLERATE this behaviour.
But this is apathetic NZ, so most likely people will just sit around and bitch about how it isn't their job/responsibility.
They will wail and gnash their teeth about the police being understaffed and underfunded, then they will go lock their doors and windows and hope the 'bad types' dont visit them tonight.

[Paul in NZ]

The odd thing is, I was discussing this with the office conservative christian this morning.

We disagree on many many things and yet, taken as a whole and if the behaviour of this gang and their ilk are taken as being at one end of the spectrum and my co workers is the other - I'm a lot closer to him than the others... Scary......

[Paul in NZ]

WARNING: RANT FOLLOWS


Sadly this is more true than we realise... the inner child is traumatised by the loveless upbringing and poor role models in the environment of the young person. Really it is not their fault at all, just a predictable result of the breakdown of the family unit and lack of moral and social grounding. We should all feel sorry for them and try to be more understanding of their needs and insecurities.
Or you could choose a different approach....
These little shits have no understanding of consequence, what is required to confront this problem is a nightly patrol of commited, confident and capable adults. A large group who are willing and able to confront and control these idiots and teach them that these actions are not acceptable in our society. Not by beating the crap out of them (unless in self defence) but just by showing a community resolved to eradicating this kind of problem.
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
Instead of hiding in our homes wailing and moaning about how it isn't safe any more and how this used to be such a nice place etc etc. Get off our collective fat arse and take some action to prevent the situation from deteriorating further. Organise a group of locals who are committed to making a difference in your area/street/town and make a roster for street patrols with torches and cell phones and cameras. All it really takes is for people to stand up and DO something to show they actually WILL NOT TOLERATE this behaviour.
But this is apathetic NZ, so most likely people will just sit around and bitch about how it isn't their job/responsibility.
They will wail and gnash their teeth about the police being understaffed and underfunded, then they will go lock their doors and windows and hope the 'bad types' dont visit them tonight.

Fair enough but in those ares how many parents have the time or resources to even make time for that? Half them are cleaning or sracking shelves at the local progressive supermarket just to make the payments to baycorp for the rent arrears.

[ManDownUnder]

maybe they were wrong and mankind is by nature a predatory animal who will find a way to kill someone, whether it be with a baseball bat, a samuri sword or by folding them up in a suitcase and chucking them in the harbor...

Bingo. We're so socialised into thinking we're not animals - we're higher order beings who live in a pleasant society etc etc etc.

That's all simply a construct, and inside each and every one of us are primal urges, "the four F's"

Feed
Fight
Flee
Sexual Reproduction

Deny that for too long and you'll find you ears full of shit from having your head up your arse.

Once we can recognise that simple fact - we are animals, ... mammals even, we ca learn to control our actions, and learn to understand why we control them. Because we need to.

Most never will know why. Most don't care.

I find it interesting...

If you need to meet the real animal in someone - get them drunk. Some of us get loud, argumentative, philosophical etc...

It sounds like these kids lived in a pack, acted in a pack and took responsibility as a pack (i.e. I didn't do it, we all did - therefire I'm not totally to blame... only 1/4). Deindividuation - today's big word - is a wonderful thing.

Enough... I'm off to look at girly pics.