It appears the Otara attack was unprovoked

[outlawtorn]

what this country needs are tougher sentences, that little shit who got 4 years for throwing the rock from the overpass, he should have got 10 years, five of them in solitary. A message needs to be sent but the justice system is so fucking soft and fucking politcally fucking correct it makes me sick. These little fuckers need to be taught a lesson.

If the bastards get caught tagging then make the parents pay the fine (minimum $2000 per tag) and make the little shits do community work every saturday and sunday for the next 6 months. If some little shit runs a child over in his twin turbo penis extension subaru then the little fucker must have his license taken away from him for 10 years cause he can't fucking drive.

What this country needs is a good kick up the arse, lets the cops do their job without the fucking tree hugging, bunny fucking PC hippy brigade, green party happy people interferring with the cops.

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH. I wish I had a platform to be heard by the powers that be and I wish they had the balls to ask the public just what they thought a decent setence should be for certain crimes. We determine which parties rule the country, don't you think we should determine other matters of state, simply be referendum?

1st Referendum - Should naughty little fucks who get caught tagging receive tougher fines (payable by their parents) and be ordered to do community service? YES/NO

2nd Referendum - Should murder carry a much stiffer penalty in terms of solitary prison time? Yes/No

3rd Referendum - Should all people who don't like motorbikes be moved to Steward Island? Yes/Yes

RANT OVER!

[ManDownUnder]

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

I hate to say it mate - that applied to the romans too, and the crusades, and... a large number of societies since.. well... a very long time ago.

[Patrick]

don't you think we should determine other matters of state, simply be referendum?

Did that not too long ago, "Harsher Penalties" 92% of the voting masses said. What did we get? Home Detention, parole after one third of your term... That'll learn em!

[Macktheknife]

Fair enough but in those ares how many parents have the time or resources to even make time for that? Half them are cleaning or sracking shelves at the local progressive supermarket just to make the payments to baycorp for the rent arrears.

I take your point Paul but tell me, does this declining social situation affect you? Does it bother you that these attacks are becoming more prevalent and somehow less noticeable than they once were?
Why does it need to be only the people in 'those areas'?
One of the most frequently mentioned things about young people who 'go off the rails', is the perception that no-one cares. They reach this conclusion because no-one cares enough to DO something, just talk about it and achieve nothing.
Think about it, when I was a kid, if you were engaged in wrong behaviour, ANY parent or adult would feel obliged to tell you not to do it. Maybe clip you around the ear and tell your parents about it, who would be grateful to them and then give you a good slap and often further punishment such as grounding or no TV.
This is called social and collective responsibility, where every member of a society recognises they have a part to play in keeping things working they way everyone wants them to be. Look around your street/area/neighborhood, do you see anybody who fits this description? If not, why not?
If so, how well do you know them and what can you do to promote the kind of street/area that you want?
This is called personal responsibility, give it a try folks.

[ManDownUnder]

what this country needs are tougher sentences, that little shit who got 4 years for throwing the rock from the overpass, he should have got 10 years, five of them in solitary. A message needs to be sent but the justice system is so fucking soft and fucking politcally fucking correct it makes me sick. These little fuckers need to be taught a lesson.

Yup!

If the bastards get caught tagging then make the parents pay the fine (minimum $2000 per tag) and make the little shits do community work every saturday and sunday for the next 6 months. If some little shit runs a child over in his twin turbo penis extension subaru then the little fucker must have his license taken away from him for 10 years cause he can't fucking drive.

Na - make the kids pay the fine. State coughs up for the initial fee, charges 15% intersest and offers them the chance to earn the money back at a reasonable, but slow enough rate. They do their time, the pay off their crime.

Parents would be punished (and it's a tough call whether that's a good or bad thing. but my main conerns it eh displacement of the punishment. A more direct cause and effect link is needed. You did that - you get this.

"Your parents get the punishment" might be just the ticket for kids who don;t like their parents - and I suspect that would apply to a good number of disaffected youth.

What this country needs is a good kick up the arse, lets the cops do their job without the fucking tree hugging, bunny fucking PC hippy brigade, green party happy people interferring with the cops.

Yup - society needs to be onside with the Police. Allowed to help them (reasonably) without getting int their way. I'm no cop, but if I can hold one idiot down while a copy chases the other I'd like to know there's no threat of assault charges hanging over my head...

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH. I wish I had a platform to be heard by the powers that be and I wish they had the balls to ask the public just what they thought a decent setence should be for certain crimes. We determine which parties rule the country, don't you think we should determine other matters of state, simply be referendum?

I hear ya.

1st Referendum - Should naughty little fucks who get caught tagging receive tougher fines (payable by their parents) and be ordered to do community service? YES/NO

Agreed. My suggestion is a $200 reward for anyone proving a tagger's guilt. The tagger is fined $300 and the imbalance goes either to the victim or to courts costs etc.

2nd Referendum - Should murder carry a much stiffer penalty in terms of solitary prison time? Yes/No

Yes to the sentence, but I don't know about the effects of solitary. I'd suggest prison life (in general) be less comfy...

3rd Referendum - Should all people who don't like motorbikes be moved to Steward Island?

LOL...

[Paul in NZ]

I take your point Paul but tell me, does this declining social situation affect you? Does it bother you that these attacks are becoming more prevalent and somehow less noticeable than they once were?
Why does it need to be only the people in 'those areas'?
One of the most frequently mentioned things about young people who 'go off the rails', is the perception that no-one cares. They reach this conclusion because no-one cares enough to DO something, just talk about it and achieve nothing.
Think about it, when I was a kid, if you were engaged in wrong behaviour, ANY parent or adult would feel obliged to tell you not to do it. Maybe clip you around the ear and tell your parents about it, who would be grateful to them and then give you a good slap and often further punishment such as grounding or no TV.
This is called social and collective responsibility, where every member of a society recognises they have a part to play in keeping things working they way everyone wants them to be. Look around your street/area/neighborhood, do you see anybody who fits this description? If not, why not?
If so, how well do you know them and what can you do to promote the kind of street/area that you want?
This is called personal responsibility, give it a try folks.

My own leanings are closely alighned with your own and I suspect we agree on more than we disagree BUT we need to take a wider view.

I don't think there is a single factor to balme for this mess, it's a combination of many complex issues that started with the unravelling of the Kiwi egalitarian dream in the 70's. The masses got sold on the idea of a certain type economic reform being the only option etc etc. Are we any better off now? No, in general we are not IMHO. However, some of us are VERY much better off and these people were the ones leading the charge.

Personal responsibility is a double edged sword as this is one of the catch cries of the reformers. Educate yourself, improve yourself, look out for number one and you will be OK... Well not always as these street gangs could be claiming to do just that.

There is a decency in the common man and a modest life. Once it was celebrated and now it is despised. "Get rich or die trying' is definately the catchcry of this generation and it's horribly wrong. Their parents will try to earn enough $$ to keep the family together are probably working every hour god sent (we are now the second hardest working nation after japan) and at the minimum wage - it's not enough. Raising a family on $60K is virtually impossible... Most don't come close to that....

Mind you - what would I know? I'm old and in general don't like people very much so I'm hardly the best judge but - Selflessness is the key to love and it's the key to solving this problem...

[Macktheknife]

My own leanings are closely alighned with your own and I suspect we agree on more than we disagree BUT we need to take a wider view.

I don't think there is a single factor to balme for this mess, it's a combination of many complex issues that started with the unravelling of the Kiwi egalitarian dream in the 70's. The masses got sold on the idea of a certain type economic reform being the only option etc etc. Are we any better off now? No, in general we are not IMHO. However, some of us are VERY much better off and these people were the ones leading the charge.

Personal responsibility is a double edged sword as this is one of the catch cries of the reformers. Educate yourself, improve yourself, look out for number one and you will be OK... Well not always as these street gangs could be claiming to do just that.

There is a decency in the common man and a modest life. Once it was celebrated and now it is despised. "Get rich or die trying' is definately the catchcry of this generation and it's horribly wrong. Their parents will try to earn enough $$ to keep the family together are probably working every hour god sent (we are now the second hardest working nation after japan) and at the minimum wage - it's not enough. Raising a family on $60K is virtually impossible... Most don't come close to that....

Mind you - what would I know? I'm old and in general don't like people very much so I'm hardly the best judge but - Selflessness is the key to love and it's the key to solving this problem...

Paul, I think you are right in saying we agree on many things, including your final comments. This is not about how many things are to BLAME for the problem, this is about the ONE thing it takes to start to make things change/improve.... Action.
Without a clear and strong display of community, this will not change, it will get worse without question.

[outlawtorn]

Paul, I think you are right in saying we agree on many things, including your final comments. This is not about how many things are to BLAME for the problem, this is about the ONE thing it takes to start to make things change/improve.... Action.
Without a clear and strong display of community, this will not change, it will get worse without question.

Right there dude "Community", it's time we stopped letting our streets being run by these little fucking cowards! If everyone stood up to them or called the police or helped their neighbour the whole situation would a lot better.

[Paul in NZ]

Paul, I think you are right in saying we agree on many things, including your final comments. This is not about how many things are to BLAME for the problem, this is about the ONE thing it takes to start to make things change/improve.... Action.
Without a clear and strong display of community, this will not change, it will get worse without question.

I agree with you but... One of the first things 'everyone for themselves at the trough' economics did was to dismantle 'communities'. The internet and daytime TV didn't help either. Unless you are relatively lucky (or picky) about where you live, there is no community anymore.

Sad... VERY sad

[Zed]

ok your solution is?

A theocratic dictatorship, but not in the same sense as is applied in the Middle East today, for I believe that God will literally be here in the future ruling and reigning over the nations with a "rod of iron" in righteousness.

Aint new rules

sure one of your commandments states "thou shall not kill" does it not!?

I'm talking about the new rules which will be imposed upon this world by the New World Order when it comes into power shortly.


And let's not forget that this is my entitled opinion, it never surprises me when the scoffers come out (Dover, Beemer) and express their distain...let's here what answers you've got to bringing peace and harmony to this world? Believe me I won't ridicule you if you provide a sincere answer.

[Paul in NZ]

A theocratic dictatorship, but not in the same sense as is applied in the Middle East today, for I believe that God will literally be here in the future ruling and reigning over the nations with a "rod of iron" in righteousness..

Yeah! They are a bit soft eh?

Hmm.. sorry - have to agree to disagree here. The seperation of the church and the state is essential for freedom to survive. I believe that the church / islam / etc need to preach tolerance and decency and lead by example towards a goal of selflessness and generosity of spirit.

[Bend-it]

The odd thing is, I was discussing this with the office conservative christian this morning.

We disagree on many many things and yet, taken as a whole and if the behaviour of this gang and their ilk are taken as being at one end of the spectrum and my co workers is the other - I'm a lot closer to him than the others... Scary......

Natural, 'coz the values (not necessarily legislation) in european societies are all based on the bible in the first place...

Yup!
Yup - society needs to be onside with the Police. Allowed to help them (reasonably) without getting int their way. I'm no cop, but if I can hold one idiot down while a copy chases the other I'd like to know there's no threat of assault charges hanging over my head...

Haha, and the police are doing a great job of getting general society on their side, aren't they?

[ManDownUnder]

Haha, and the police are doing a great job of getting general society on their side, aren't they?

Generally yes. Walk in their shoes for a while and let me know what you think of them.

Here's my take:
They do a bitch of a job, with no ability to be supported by the public for the letigious reasons in my previous post, they're under-resourced, working shifts which are proven to damage family and other social relationships and have budgets continually being cut at the direction of those with a profit motive.

Actually... I take back my first comment about them doing a good job. I think they do a fucken wonderful job.

I'm not kissing arse to get out of a ticket or three. I'm saying that if we want society's shit to be fixed we have to enable to cops to do their jobs. Maybe we (as society) have a responsibility to help them... ever wonder about that one?

[Finn]

I blame Colonel Sanders. I hated the Colonel with his wee beady eyes! There's something sinister in those 7 secret herbs and spices.

[Paul in NZ]

I blame Colonel Sanders. I hated the Colonel with his wee beady eyes! There's something sinister in those 7 secret herbs and spices.

Yeah man... and the whole damn family is in on it eh? His cousin Orbital Sanders is up there spying on us and his bro Floor Sander is just freakin crazy many, turn him on and ya have no idea which way hes gunna go... I don't even want to talk about belt sanders...