It appears the Otara attack was unprovoked

[Lou Girardin]

Nah, more likely 'cos there dumb.

And I've not written a ticket out for the last four days at work, oh dear, what will I say to the 'boss'? how will I meet my quota??

Quotas-Scmottas!!! Pffft!

I guess we've got the cops we deserve then.

[Bend-it]

Tazer him SD!

[Patrick]

Then they got amalgamated by the Govt in 1992 "so NZ will have twice as many Police" - yeah right!!

Minor correction Scummy - I think there were only 1300 snakes NZ wide, joining 5000 pigs...

Can't help thinking it had more to do with the revenue aspect tho...

to rephrase slightly - "amalgamated by the Govt in 1992 so NZ Govt will have almost 4 times the number of revenue collectors" perhaps?

[candor]

Something is missing in this debate. You guys keep talking about right and wrong behaviour. About parents / schools / cops etc beng too soft. About people needing to learn there are consequences.

This ignores the fact most of the offenders come from a subculture. From a background where family has often taught them quite deliberately that its good to be bad. Wrong is right. The badder the better. Its good to be tough - the tougher the better.

There are plenty people out there deliberately corrupting their kids - I see it often enough in my line of work. They do not love their kids (had for a benefit) and don't care how they develop - so long as they don't do better than their useles selves (cos that would be shameful).To be a killer is great cos then you get a rep and some news coverage - attention. Might is right in some places. Shit for brains, maybe you have fetal alcohol syndrome (not your fault) and the one the family looks up to as a real character is that rebel uncle jim who is in jail for (fill the gap).

I've worked with plenty of killers and generally they are quite proud of it. If you want to understand the make-up of these people some good places to start are an exploration of the "narcissistic" personality. And maybe Scott Pecks book "people of the lie" which deals with people whose psychologicalmakeupcauses them to be evil. It has a bot of a christian slant but is worth reading never the less (as Peck is a clever qualified shrink).

There are 2 good ways to raise a narcissist cum likely killer. Spoil it rotten and make it feel its superior and perfect and entitled and incapable of being wrong. Complete emotional neglect of a kid, its almost like you treat them like furniture not an individual (may include physical or other abuse but need not).

The surest way to raise a killer is to swing inconsistently between these 2 extreme approaches with no rhyme or reason as well as to encourage adoption of an amoral egocentric orientation to life eg by role modelling it. Reactive attachment disorder is common in future thugs. They do not form deep human bonds so have no empathy (abilityto imagine or therefore care) about how others feel.

Paranoia is also common eg you are quick to feel others are belittling you (even by looking at you) and keen to be the victor (no matter how it might hurt someone else). The inability to see consequences as well as to care about them is also usually lacking in those who are "alternately" socialised or as some call it "antisocial personality disorder". Maturity level if compared to rest of society - around 2-3. Not individuated yet and has missed the boat.

It can take a while of knowing murderers until you start to hear or note a few thing which tll you some essential parts like empathy and conscience are amiss. It does not worry them tho as they see these things as others weaknesses. And know too that as others will assume they are in possession of these things (unless convicted) then others will have guard down.

They know they are different (some call themselves the 1%ers in prison culture) and of this they are glad. Soldiers I believe are trained to detach like these psychopaths when it comes time to do the busines. These people always feel detached cos they have little or dead emotional life normally.

Hence the excitement, endorphins and adrenalin of a good scrap or kill is very convivial to them. So thats my observations anyway derived from theory I've learnt and working with these types in special ed schools and prisons.

Solutions - difficult with generational dysfunctions that often run thru whole communities. I think the communities and the elders of the communities values need to seriously change. Which sounds a bit Duffish I guess.
People need to stop valuing violence and stop raising their kids to be "scrappy". And stop beng secretly proud when the kids brek the law or do "wrong" - cos the kids know when the parents are chuffed and will keep excelling.

It was a real put off working with delinquents when parents picking them up for leave would encourage these 6 yr olds to swear at staff as you waved them goodbye. There is a subculture out there that does not want their kids to be OK. A friend of mine counsels abusive parents who often admit to not loving their kids - resenting - hating them etc. Looking at the foundations - scarey, the result - not surprising!

[jrandom]

Shudder. Isn't it all so terribly awful?

Ah well. Time for all good men to come to the aid of the party, eh? I think I'll start packing a tidy little 2 1/4" double-action .357 mag alongside the Chinook. Check it. I mean, is this just totally sweet, or what?

Might also retire the Chinook to skinning duties and swap to a Civilian.

Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six...

If it didn't guarantee that my beloved sidearms would spend the rest of their days in an evidence bag, I'd head down to Mangere right now and bag me a darkie.

[candor]

Are you being provocative? Anyone else fit the profile? I like the Ruger but its so small can it possibly do the right thing? Or should lone walkers just resort to tazers instead?

[jrandom]

Are you being provocative?

To quote Eric Idle, "Me? Ohhh, nooo, nooooooo... yes."

Anyone else fit the profile?

What, other than darkies? Thought they were what the thread was about.

I like the Ruger but its so small can it possibly do the right thing?

A few minutes of computational fluid dynamics should make it evident that a standard .357 Magnum load generates enough bullet acceleration in a 2 1/4" barrel to give respectable terminal ballistics at typical defensive ranges.

[Drunken Monkey]

... alongside the Chinook. Check it....

Bah, folders are SO retro uncool. Push knives are where it's at. They're so much cooler because they're so much more illegal!

... If it didn't guarantee that my beloved sidearms would spend the rest of their days in an evidence bag, I'd head down to Mangere right now and bag me a darkie...

I hear that.

[jrandom]

Push knives are where it's at. They're so much cooler because they're so much more illegal!

But they're a PITA to carry concealed for an easy draw. Lockback folders are the way to go. I'd carry a balisong, but I like my fingers attached to my hand, and I can open a folder faster, anyway. And if I'm spending $300 on a knife, I want it to double as a utility tool, so a belly on the blade comes in handy.

A lot of the Cold Steel models are very nice, though. Even if they're waaay overpriced and the thumb studs on their folders are much less handy than the Spyderco hole. Nobody does folders quite like Spyderco.

I gotta admit, a classic fixed-blade dagger would be a comforting thing to have ready to hand if any shit went down, fo' sho'... but the days of a gentleman being expected to carry steel at his belt are long gone, I fear.

What the world needs is a good dose of theology and geometry...

[andrea]

Do you wear "mumbles" too?

no i haven't a clue what the fark they are,

[andrea]

Do you wear "mumbles" too?

come round on the next kb ride and wear your mumble thingy so i know what it looks like

[Lou Girardin]

Nigel Latta is a NZ forensic psychologist, he doesn't mince his words about the predators in our midst. He says they're not misunderstood or under-priviliged, they're just bad. Always will be, until age renders them harmless. The best we can do is ensure they can't hurt anyone.

[spudchucka]

cops being charged for kicking young kids arses and telling them to fuck off home. mum and dads are going to be charged for clipping their kids round the ears. what do peopl expect? i don't condone a police state, but i do condone old fashioned values and respect. the old 'unlawful assembly' law should be used more often, but it creats SO much paperwork, and many of these groups are under 17, so the can't be charged anyway, their parents don't care, neither does cyfs.

in the not-too-distant future we will see street cops routinely armed with side arms, (there are a good number already doing so) then it will come down to individuals protecting themselves with their weapon of choice.

We need to treat them like stray dogs, round them up and put them in the pound. Then their low life parents can pay to get them out once they've been microchipped.

[Paul in NZ]

Something is missing in this debate. You guys keep talking about right and wrong behaviour. About parents / schools / cops etc beng too soft. About people needing to learn there are consequences.

This ignores the fact most of the offenders come from a subculture. From a background where family has often taught them quite deliberately that its good to be bad. Wrong is right. The badder the better. Its good to be tough - the tougher the better.

!

One of the best posts here... Thank you.

I know I'm regarded as a barbarian but to me this is typical of the sort of crime that is prevented by life imprisonment or capital punishment. Unfashionable I know, unconciousable for some but we are not thinking like criminals are we?

[Beemer]

About 55kmh. Boom tish!

Somewhere there is a thread titled "And so, into the night". That should explain much...

Ah, figured as much. Suppose you'll be getting a hair cut (whoops, silly me, sorry!) and working out your posing routine next so you'll look purdy in the Rusty Nuts DVD?