NCEA opinions sought

[BuFfY]

What are your opinions on NCEA?

And what has influenced your opinion, whether it is through doing it yourself, your children going through it or what you have heard through media (or any other ways!!)

I personally loved it, I was put up a grade for Geography so I got to go through school cert and 6th form cert aswell as the whole way through NCEA so I have the experience to back up my view. It worked really well for me as the criterion was very clear and easy to follow, yet I do see the down side in the way in which some teachers are not using it correctly.

So what do you think!?!

[GR81]

doesnt Cambridge High have a really good NCEA system going on? LOL

[MSTRS:Me]

I think the idea is sound. The problem is that people (are teachers people?) are involved and that is where the whole thing falls down...

[Hitcher]

Teachers are averse to external assessment system as it allows their performance to be monitored, as well as that of their students.

It would be nice to have a system that allowed the wider population to easily understand how much the bar of eductional standards is being lowered each year and what individual school leavers don't know.

[ManDownUnder]

We need a system where students get accurately assessed (per Hitchers cmments). We need a system where kids learn ewhere they stand, they can pass exams... or they can fail exams.

At the moment I understand it's pretty hard to fail an NCEA subject... you just don't pass with such a good grade.

The real world is full of hard knocks. You will fail when you come up against someone bigger and better.

In short - I get the feeling NCEA is PC bullshit applied to our education system.

And to ansrew the rest of your question... my influences are having gone through the non NCEA system, through an apprenticeship, and through Universty - all of which had absolute standards measuring my abilities. If I was not good enough I didn't pass, mget a pay rise, and pass (respectively). I'm also a fan of the school of hard knocks. Pain is a very good teacher..

Don;t get me wrong - those that know me will testify I'm the first to help, encourage and enable people to pass.. but I won't pass the exams for them. Show them the benefits of passing, show them what can be if you put your nose down, arse up and work. I'm also a fan of a good old fashioned reality check. (or asset check as I call it).

Know what you're good at, and know your limitations. Those are the aspects of your life that will determine a lot of what you can and can't do, and that is the olist that helps you determine what you can work on, and where you can go.

/raving

[Patrick]

What I don't get is how some who are behind in marks can go out into the playground and pick up rubbish for extra credits...

[BuFfY]

That was in one school, I worked bloody hard for my credits and got the good marks because I understood what I was doing. It says on your certificate exactly what you got your marks for. So like....

BIOLOGY: Describe the impact of human activities on an ecosystem Level 3 Credit Value: 2 Excellence

STATISTICS: Use straight forward statistical data methods to explore data Level 1 Credit Value 3 Excellence

You know exactly what you did for the marks, where as when I did school c it was Geography: B

[Jantar]

I was educated under the old examination system. Percentages were given, you either passed or you didn't pass, and you knew where you were in relation to others who were sitting the same subject. It meant that you also knew the areas in which you excelled, and those where more work was required, and you also knew what subjects to give up as you were never going to make it.

My children were educated as NCEA was coming in. My eldest sat School Certificate, my youngest was NCEA all the way. As a parent I could follow my childrens progress with much more certainty under the old external examination system.

My youngest son received a school report under NCEA that was so bad I threatened to pull him out the college he was attending and send him back to a normal high school. However when I went and interviewed his teachers to see where he was going wrong, I found out that his knowledge base was right up where it should be. He was achieving all of his credits, and actually doing very well. As to my question of why his school report was so bad, it came down to the standards set under NCEA. One of the criteria at levl 1 - 3 subjects is "consistantly studys on his/her own time and produses work to provide evedence of this study". My son was bright enough in his chosen subjects that he didn't need to put in extra study in his own time, and so didn't meet this part of the criteria and therefore struggled to get the requisite assessment. But he knew the subject. An exam would have shown this.

I am now involved to some extent with training, and mentoring some of our staff through a National Diploma under NCEA. It is an absolute crock of shit.

I do believe that there is a place for assessment systems such as NCEA, but they should be secondary to an external exam. Externally set exams give a far clearer indication of a students ranking and ability, and also gives a clear indication of the teacher's knowledge and ability.

[Jeremy]

I prefer uni exams due to their scaling and that the exams are short. I'd have been much happier if you could just do the excellence question and get excellence, than wasting time doing fluff.

[Colapop]

Echoing all the clever things that have been stated. I like the sytem that I went through that has a percentage pass mark instead of A's and B's (which tell me very little) with the addition of practical knowledge or experience. NCEA provides for different learning styles but is poorly implemented and managed and not the fault of teachers.

[Indiana_Jones]

NCEA is a crock of shit in my personal opinion. All they have done is make it easier for dumb people to pass and harder for smart people to get good marks.

-Indy

[Magua]

What was wrong with School C to warrent the change to NCEGAY?

[Flyingpony]

I don't like the NCEA system at all. It seems like all students are given a wet bus ticket for non-performance and still achieve a pass. Hell, they don't even have to enrol or attend the classes to get a passing grade! It seems like nobody can fail anymore,,, wait till they reach University or real world. It feels to me that students can go to gym class and reading book class (it's really time) and woohoo, they've passed the year. But what have they really learnt? Did they actually pass Science, Chemistry, Geography, Mathematics and English?

The system of old where students got given the old ABCDEF with + & - marks means something,,, it's traditional and proven universal understanding. I like it. You can talk to old people and they know if you're good or dumb based upon those grades. Speak to them about NCEA scores, you might as well be speaking in French.

[BuFfY]

I don't think it is a lack of education for the majority of students but a lack of education of the wider population. All the politics that has gone into slamming the education is terrible. Have you noticed all the NEGATIVE articles? It can't be all negative if a) they decided to change the assessment scheme and b) they haven't gotten rid of it.

Sixth form certificate did not work because it was based on percentiles, not percentages (there is a massive difference). Due to the fact my school hadn't achieved too well the years previous we only had a small amount of 1's and 2's to give out... so scaling came into effect. My grade got put down heaps because of this. Through school c and sixth form cert schools can tell students not to sit it so that their school looks better, and they get given more higher grade opportunities. Whereas NCEA allows everyone to show their strengths. If their strength is picking up rubbish I am sure the local council would love them to apply for a job.

NCEA is awesome in the way it shows what you are good at in a specific subject. Instead of it being MATHS I got to show my talent in statistics.

I think uneducated opinions are what is hindering NCEA, especially when they are 'educated' by looking through the herald and looking at one off incidents

[Hitcher]

That was in one school, I worked bloody hard for my credits and got the good marks because I understood what I was doing. It says on your certificate exactly what you got your marks for. So like....

BIOLOGY: Describe the impact of human activities on an ecosystem Level 3 Credit Value: 2 Excellence

STATISTICS: Use straight forward statistical data methods to explore data Level 1 Credit Value 3 Excellence

You know exactly what you did for the marks, where as when I did school c it was Geography: B

I understand what you're saying but neither system really tells anybody anything. An implicit part of the "old" system was that everybody knew what level of competency was involved in School C or UE geography and maths. It didn't need to be described in detail. If you were ratshit at calculus but a whizz at trigonometry, things averaged out across your "mark".

Whereas a descriptor of "Describe the impact of human activities on an ecosystem Level 3" is meaningless. This topic could be covered by a minimum of half-an-hour's worth of teaching followed by a multi-choice exam. If I was an employer looking to hire somebody to work in the natural resources business, would such a level of "learning" actually mean anything? I doubt it.