Any Auto Electricans amongt us?

**Racey Rider** · 17th July 2004, 15:05

So the latest thing is: Our car won't start. :confused2
Anyone know why? :spudwhat:

O, You want some details....
93 Honda Ascot Innova. Dark Blue with those flash wheel covers.

It started first thing this morning. ran for about 30 seconds then stopped.
It stopped like it was out of gas. (Spluter spluter die.)

Have checked to find the problem has created no spark at the plugs.
I looked and talked nicely to the fuse box,,,,, but nothin!

Motor turns over well, fuel is getting to the spark plugs, but no spark.

Any ideas?
Maybe I should change the air in the spare tyre??

**Posh Tourer :P** · 17th July 2004, 15:57

Originally Posted by Racey Rider

So the latest thing is: Our car won't start. :confused2
Anyone know why? :spudwhat:

O, You want some details....
93 Honda Ascot Innova. Dark Blue with those flash wheel covers.

It started first thing this morning. ran for about 30 seconds then stopped.
It stopped like it was out of gas. (Spluter spluter die.)

Have checked to find the problem has created no spark at the plugs.
I looked and talked nicely to the fuse box,,,,, but nothin!

Motor turns over well, fuel is getting to the spark plugs, but no spark.

Any ideas?
Maybe I should change the air in the spare tyre??

I guess its something to do with the coils/ignition control. If its the computery thingy, I have no idea. Maybe replace that... If it is the coil? well replace it. You aint gonna fix nuttin by the sounds of it...

**marty** · 17th July 2004, 16:55

fuel is getting to the spark plugs? how do you know this?

could be 100's of reasons why it won't go - fuel filter blocked, someone put diesel in it, air in the fuel line, ignition fuse is blown (one of the big ones onder the bonnet), ballast resistor is burned out (will start but quickly die as soon as key is turned back to 'on').....just a small list of potential problems. if it is the ecu it should say something on the dash (like FI or similar)

**Racey Rider** · 17th July 2004, 17:14

Originally Posted by marty

fuel is getting to the spark plugs? how do you know this?

ignition fuse is blown (one of the big ones onder the bonnet),

I can "flood" the engine if I try too, making the spark plugs wet with fuel.
But this is not a problem under normal starting technique.

Ignition fuse.
Could be. but where? who knows.

**Racey Rider** · 17th July 2004, 17:17

Originally Posted by Posh Tourer :P

If its the computery thingy, I have no idea. Maybe replace that....

Yep! Bound to be the most expensive thing on the car.

**Motu** · 17th July 2004, 19:20

Is that the inline 5 cyl? if so I have seen them melt dist caps and rotors.Is it fuel injection? No check engine light and injector pulse means the ECU is possibly ok,means no input signal to the computer is faulty,first thing is to check earths,next is the coil (in dist) getting a signal,this is a low voltage pulse from the computer and will be bumped up by a transistor to work the coil.If the coil is switching then you have a faulty coil.I have no time at the moment,do that stuff and I'll check later.

**Racey Rider** · 17th July 2004, 19:45

Originally Posted by Motu

Is that the inline 5 cyl? if so I have seen them melt dist caps and rotors.Is it fuel injection? No check engine light and injector pulse means the ECU is possibly ok,means no input signal to the computer is faulty,first thing is to check earths,next is the coil (in dist) getting a signal,this is a low voltage pulse from the computer and will be bumped up by a transistor to work the coil.If the coil is switching then you have a faulty coil.I have no time at the moment,do that stuff and I'll check later.

No, the 5 cylinder is the Ascot Rafarga (sp).
fuel injection - Yes.
check engine light - has one put not on.
and injector pulse - ??
check earths, next is the coil (in dist) - will look at tomorrow.
If the coil is switching - ??
Thanks.

**Motu** · 17th July 2004, 22:38

OK - if you turn the key on the check engine light should come on and go out,if it stays on the computer thinks something is wrong,the light going out is a good sign,but could also mean the ECU is stuffed - it won't diagnose itself.So you don't have to look at computer inputs,although I always do anyway.In a Honda the cam and crank angle sensors are in the dist,these go to the ecu which puts them to good use - making the ign and fuel system work.That you have fuel in the cyl means the fuel pump is working and the ecu is sending signals to the injectors,and so should be sending them to the coil too,I guess the easiest way for you to check that would be to put a test lamp on the coil terminals and crank the motor - your test light should go on and off showing the ecu is switching it,sometimes we use a headlamp bulb if you take the wires off.The signal coming from the ecu will be a low voltage so it uses a module to switch 12 volts at the coil.From my experiance with Hondas I'd say the coil is stuffed,but if it's ok you'll have to work your way back - the computer needs earths,good earths,and there are a few of them,make sure they are all good earths.

**PZR** · 17th July 2004, 22:48

I have some technical information so you will need to get a pen and paper and copy this down carefully word for word.

Are you ready now?
I will type slowly so you can keep up

The problem is.......
Are you sure you are ready??
ITS BROKEN!
Pay a mechanic person to fix it

**Racey Rider** · 18th July 2004, 09:11

Originally Posted by Motu

OK - if you turn the key on the check engine light should come on and go out,if it stays on the computer thinks something is wrong,the light going out is a good sign,but could also mean the ECU is stuffed - it won't diagnose itself.So you don't have to look at computer inputs,although I always do anyway.In a Honda the cam and crank angle sensors are in the dist,these go to the ecu which puts them to good use - making the ign and fuel system work.....

I have the Dist cap,off, but the rotor don't want to come off when I pull it. What keeps them on? or do I just pull it harder?
I need to take the rotor off, to take the cover thing off that is over the other bits in that Dist area. see attachment.

cam and crank angle sensors: The car was on a funny lean angle when this first happened, from being park in a unusally manar. (No, nothing like that,, just the truck was in the way!). It's now a lot more level, tho not perfect.

I do have a muilt metre and wire curcit testing probe light, so will give your ideas a go when I find where the coils are at.
The motor is a F20a.

Thanks.
Racey.

**Motu** · 18th July 2004, 09:31

It should just pull off,but also could be retained by a screw,look underneath the rotor and turn the motor over,use someone else or bit by bit,if you don't see a scew,gently does it.A Honda engine runs backwards by the way,that's anticlockwise from the pulley end.You will need to do a primary and secondary resistance test on the coil.I have no specs here,but tell me what they are anyway.

**Racey Rider** · 18th July 2004, 10:06

Yes good call! I turned the motor over and it revealed a screw holding the rotor in. So now rotor and second cover is off. Is that the coil I'm looking at there?

Presuming it is, when the key is turned to on my light shows good power at both the positive and negative points.
With the motor winding over, the light shows constant power at the positive and pulsating power at the negative.

Originally Posted by Motu

You will need to do a primary and secondary resistance test on the coil.I have no specs here,but tell me what they are anyway.

You'ld need to explain that proceducer to me.

**Racey Rider** · 18th July 2004, 12:20

I place my muilt-metre at 200 ohms
when i check the resitance between the + & - points on the coil (if thats what it is), I get 1.2 ohms. Key is off.
When I check between the - point and the centre rotor point, I get 6.2 ohms.
Is that the right proceducer?

**Motu** · 18th July 2004, 14:31

Primary resistance is between the two terminals,secondary between one primary term and coil tower - that's where the spark comes out.My specs for an F20A (I'm at work now) are .4 - .5 ohms primary and 14,000 - 22,000 secondary,sounds like the coil is faulty,but check several times.You won't be able to get a new coil for less than retail value of your car,best pay $450 for a second hand dist.Honda have very good prices on new dist at the moment,check genuine too.