Tougher Sentencing

[Deano]

Im prepared to stand by my convictions (no pun intended )

So I would value your opinion (without returning any pointless personal attacks on you for it), on whether you consider sentencing for offences to be tough enough. A prime example is the three strikes and your out being used in NY, which I understand has reduced the crime rate astronomically.

[Hitcher]

Judges are a pretty fair reflection of NZ society and also hand out what the law says they should. There is little evidence to suggest that unnecessarily harsher sentences make a jot of difference in reducing offending or assisting the rehabilitation of those convicted. Sentencing shouldn't be about revenge or punitive punishment. Those who think otherwise should move to Texas or Iraq.

[FROSTY:Me]

I think we need to get to the young guys before they get into a life of crime.
Educate em rather than punish.

[Jackrat]

Three strikes and a small caliber bullet behind the left ear would be a lot cheaper.

[Nouseforaname]

Hell, i got no problem with selective death sentences, they can employ me and ill decide who dies or not. That ass who killed that little girl a few months back, i would have had him killed long before that happened, most probably around about his 10th conviction. Also, ill happily clear all the homeless scum bags from around the cities.


some people just dont deserve to live........ so why should they

[Ms Piggy]

I think we need to get to the young guys before they get into a life of crime.
Educate em rather than punish.

Yup I agree with ya XJ there but sadly a lot of our criminals are having their minds fucked over at such a young age it's hard to know when to start educating them.

I think tougher sentences are good but then again prisons don't have the resources to rehabilitate or possibly don't want to.

And then again I do agree with what Mr H says too:

Sentencing shouldn't be about revenge or punitive punishment.

But then try telling to the victims.

[mangell6]

I think that we should be more liberal and consider the perpertrator and the poor life that they have had that contributed to the way that they make personal decisions.

And for goodness sake do not state that anti-liberal thought of personal responsibility and be accountable for your own actions.

Harsher sentences are not the solution as the Judiciary are the individuals that decide what the sentence is. I favour "minimum" sentences, sort of like the CONSEQUENCES when indivuduals are caught drunk driving.

Dismounts hobby horse

[Deano]

I think that we should be more liberal and consider the perpertrator and the poor life that they have had that contributed to the way that they make personal decisions.

And for goodness sake do not state that anti-liberal thought of personal responsibility and be accountable for your own actions.

Harsher sentences are not the solution as the Judiciary are the individuals that decide what the sentence is. I favour "minimum" sentences, sort of like the CONSEQUENCES when indivuduals are caught drunk driving.

Dismounts hobby horse

Anti liberalism ?

How many people who have also had a 'poor life', make a conscious decision to make good of themselves and do so ?

Personal responsibility and accountability is bad ? FFS.

Minimum sentences first first offences perhaps and where there are mitigating circumstances, sure, but what about the guy with 22 drink driving convictions who has no sense of remorse or repentance ? Should they be allowed to continue driving or remain free under the premise of 'liberalism' until they kill someone on the road ?

[Deano]

But then try telling to the victims.

Good call - under the premise of so called 'liberalism', would victims be free to seek their revenge on the perpetrator Mangell ?

[Her_C4]

I think tougher sentences are good but then again prisons don't have the resources to rehabilitate......

Difficult and very costly to rehabilitate people who have never been habilitated in the first instance...

....... or possibly don't want to.

The Dept of Corrections do some very good work that often goes unseen and unrecognised by the majority of the taxpayers in targetting a reduction in reoffending rates, and have continued to introduce a number of intervention strategies ......

[Magua]

I think life should mean life, what did Daniel Bell get, 30 years for 3 murders? (correct me if I'm wrong).

[What?]

I think there are definite cases for tougher sentences, but also some for lighter. On the surface, capital punishment sounds right for murder, but then consider the case of one Arthur Thomas. It seems that the police prosecuters MAY not have improved much since then if you remember the tv doco about Scott Watson. It SEEMED obvious that he could not have done what he was jailed for. The prosecution case rested totally on discrediting the witnesses; the prosecution had it sussed while the people who were there all had false memories... Got to wonder a bit about the David Bain case as well.
One thing I got out of a week of jury service was a total lack of confidence in our "justice" system. Combine that with a low level of confidence in the police (the big boys more than the front-liners), it's a scary world.
So I don't know what the hell I want.

[Jackrat]

Ok serious this time.
I come from the type of family that breeds crim's.
Education is a wonderfull idea apart from for the kids that are to busy worrying about what the next hiding is going to be for or why the old lady packed her bags a couple of years ago and hasn't been heard from since.
Belive me it's not easy learning anything in a place like that.Fear kind'a gets in the way.From seven years of age I lived in a sucsession of boys homes,foster homes,and then on to borstal and eventualy prison.ALL of those places were better than where I had been, prison included.Back then there was no name for bleeding heart lib's but my mates and I knew them well anyway.We just called them suckers is all.The cycle starts in the home and our system of welfare and punitive justice only reinforces it, nothing else.
Something like 90% of our old borstal inmates would be back within two years.
Most of the kids I met in boys homes I met again years later in borstal and then again in prison.Some of these guys names still regularly appear in our news papers today.ALL of them came from the same backgrouds as me.If a person doesn't work it out for themselfs no amount of prison time will make them do it.I never met a single inmate that didn't know they were shit heads, including myself.For this reason I think our system should change so that after a set age,say 20yrs old,then a three strikes and your out should apply.
That would give those that would change a chance to do so and save a lot of victim grief later on.Rehab' is a nice word but in the real world that's all it is.The same applys to education,more so when the guy realises
no matter what he achives he will still never be allowed the same opertunitys as other people due to his early life.My own way to address this was to leave
NZ and settle in Australia.While I lived there I entered into a profession I would never have even been allowed to think about here.
The main reason our prison system doesn't work is that our prisons are actualy nice places.I spent 18 months in Rangipo before I chose to change my own ways.Three squares a day,easy going staff,comfortable lodgings,free medical care,plenty of drugs,plenty of sex if ya' don't mind having ya' knob polished by an ugly tranny for a chocolate bar,Sure beats working if you weren't going anywhere else anyway.The violence is no worse than were a lot of the inmates already come from and you get to know your place real fast.Those guys that continue the same old cycle do so by choise,not because they had hard up bringings or any other bleeding heart reasons,so fuck em,throw away the key and let the rest of us get on with life without the worry of on going and ever increasing,Rapes,murders,gang violence,ect,ect,ect.Because other than the odd murder most of these crimes are being commited by the same people time and time again.
If nothing else it would stop the pricks breeding and continuing the cycle through their own off spring.
If you look at the worst of our own small biker communtiy,hells angels,highway 61,filthyfew,ect,ect, They simply wouldn't exist with a three strikes system.Then think about all the repeat rapists running free today.Hope none of them are wandering your street right now huh.
How about all the drug dealers that will get out this week or maybe even tomorrrow,reckon they won't sell to your kids.
Nah fuck it,a small bullet would be cheaper.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Harsher sentences are not the solution as the Judiciary are the individuals that decide what the sentence is. I favour "minimum" sentences, sort of like the CONSEQUENCES when indivuduals are caught drunk driving.

I dont understand the link between the premise that harsher sentences are not the solution and the reason you put forward. The judiciary are limited in what they can sentence a person to for a set crime. The jury decides what they are (or arent) guilty of, and the judge then has to decide which end of the bracket the sentence is going to be. You can legislate in capacity for harsher sentences, this doesnt mean that it will happen, except if you raise the minimum sentence.
Minimum sentences seem to be a good idea, set consequences no matter what the circumstances. The three strikes and you are out rule also seems to have merit, as it gives a firm guideline as to what will happen when, and discourages testing the limits of getting away with crimes...

[spudchucka]

How about all the drug dealers that will get out this week or maybe even tomorrrow,reckon they won't sell to your kids.
Nah fuck it,a small bullet would be cheaper.

The old 180 grain sleeping pill trick. Needless to say i would support harsher sentences.

Jackrat,

Thats a compelling story, good on you for having the guts to change. What you have said is the truth as I have seen it over and over again. The home is the start or the end of bloody near all budding criminals. Social services can throw any amount of $$$ and support at fledgling crims but if the support aint there at home the efforts are so often fruitless. I admire anyone that has grown up rough and had the opportunity to take the wrong road but found the guts and determination to turn back. RESPECT!!