Military Question

[Winston001]

I notice we have a few military types here. I occasionally read SAS and military histories as well as the odd related novel. Also enjoy good war movies.

So I've always wondered how accurate the descriptions of shooting are in a firefight. There just seem to be too many bullets fired. Admittedly ammo supply at a defended position wouldn't usually be a problem.

But out on patrol - surely a small group of soldiers can't afford to fire automatic weapons to provide enfilading or suppression cover without running out?

What's the reality? I'd have thought accurate 3-4 bullet bursts on target would be the wise use of ammo. And even then only as necessary. Indiscriminate auto fire seems like a very good way to run out of ammo fast.

The only variability is whether a soldier is carrying heavy 7.62 rounds or lighter 5.56 of which he can carry more.

[terbang]

Did an exercise in Fiji (tropic reef 1979) back when we were on good terms with the Merkins. Towards the end the yanks gave us a demo on how to ambush an enemy patrol. I did notice that, compared to what we did, it was very 'fire power' orientated. Each section member had an automatic weapon (the M16) supported by GPMG, whereas us kiwis only carried a Semi automatic weapon (7.62 SLR) with a base compliment of 60 rounds (if I can remember right) and were supported by GPMG. Without going into too much detail I guess its a matter of, who it is and how big their budget is, that eventualy depicts how much ammo is used. Us Kiwis slept up trees in hammocks away from the leeches and food stealing mongoose, where the yanks slept on the ground and over the weeks became a sorry looking bunch. Maybe thats why they had to have so many bullets and fancy guns..

[oldrider]

Always amazes me how many shots get fired in military situations.
I was a pig and deer hunter for many years and never carried much ammunition, one up the spout four in the mag and another couple in my pockets.
If I had to use them all then it meant more meat than I could carry and it would be just wasted.
I did fire a few rounds on a target just to keep my eye in and to check the rifle sights but otherwise they were to expensive for me to fire off.
News items always show some destitute looking Arabs firing AK47's wildly into the air, how in the name of hell, oops, Allah, can they afford to do that!
Anyway if I couldn't take a target out in two shots I would pack up and go home in disgust.
Too old, too deaf and too blind to go hunting anymore any way killing things doesn't hold much appeal for me these days. Cheers John.

[Street Gerbil]

In Israel on patrols I used to carry 4 spare clips in belt pouches and two clips taped together on a firearm or just two clips at any other time. Personally I think it is more than enough for most situations - either you do your job and get home or you get hit (luckily never happened to me) before you have a chance to use up the ammuniton. But that's just me, your mileage may vary...

[sAsLEX]

Always amazes me how many shots get fired in military situations.
I was a pig and deer hunter for many years and never carried much ammunition, one up the spout four in the mag and another couple in my pockets.
If I had to use them all then it meant more meat than I could carry and it would be just wasted.
I did fire a few rounds on a target just to keep my eye in and to check the rifle sights but otherwise they were to expensive for me to fire off.
News items always show some destitute looking Arabs firing AK47's wildly into the air, how in the name of hell, oops, Allah, can they afford to do that!
Anyway if I couldn't take a target out in two shots I would pack up and go home in disgust.
Too old, too deaf and too blind to go hunting anymore any way killing things doesn't hold much appeal for me these days. Cheers John.

Hunting you generally have a single target, ie you bag a pig/deer/thar/chamois and every other in the group runs away, you gut/skin the carcass and go home.

People dont necasarily stop when you shoot one in a group, and how many in the group etc so it depends on the situation.....

[smokeyging]

Too old, too deaf and too blind to go hunting anymore any way killing things doesn't hold much appeal for me these days. Cheers John.

Yep, i know the feeling. i personally am happy to go out with a camera and a souped-up lense to get a magic photo of wildlife these days. my guns have plenty of dust on them, a little more won't matter.

[Skyryder]

Got rid of my firearms last year. Anything that makes more noise than me I'm not interested.

Skyryder

[Highlander]

Anything that makes more noise than me I'm not interested.

Skyryder

And you ride a guzzi?

[Colapop]

More bangs = more bums on seats. Real life aint like that. I have not been in a combat live fire situation.

[Highlander]

I have not been in a combat live fire situation.

Didn't you grow up in Wairoa? I thought live fire was standard practice on the main street.

[Colapop]

True. But I will not admit to firing any type of weapon in public....

[Winston001]

In Israel on patrols I used to carry 4 spare clips in belt pouches and two clips taped together on a firearm or just two clips at any other time.

What sort of weapon and how big were the clips? I understand that taping clips in reverse (ie. one is upside down until you need it) doesn't always work because it allows sand and dirt to enter the open magazine.

The British SAS developed spacers for the M16 which allowed 2 clips to be taped side by side, right way up.

Anyway, interesting. As I suspected, blasting off half a mag doesn't make military sense unless you are at a firebase. We do see Islamic militants joyfully emptying whole clips into the air and I suspect this is their fighting style in same areas.

Having said that, Hamas looked a lot more disciplined in southern Lebanon.

[SARGE]

i always worked in small team environments .. 4 to 6 man teams ..we had the standard RTFA (Ready-Team-Fire-Assist) layout .. i carried the M203 most of the time and i dont ever remember being on full auto.. i carried 8 30 round mags and a compliment of 40mm rounds for the thumper

my M249 gunner was always on rock n roll but he had an assistant gunner who carried extra ammo ...wasnt a problem..


and yes.. my experience with Arab fighters is that they use the 'spray & pray' tactics alot

[Winston001]

An M249 (SAW) fires 750 rounds a minute so you'd certainly need a friend to carry some extra ammo. Nice weapon, never read much about it before. http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?im...&ct=image&cd=1

[2much]

Always amazes me how many shots get fired in military situations.
I was a pig and deer hunter for many years and never carried much ammunition, one up the spout four in the mag and another couple in my pockets.

Ever wonder how it would affect your accuracy if the pigs and deer started firing back?



With the IW Styer we were trained to fire in bursts of 3-4 rounds, both for accuracy and conservation of ammo.

With the C9 LSW you pretty much hold the trigger until the belt runs out or nothing moves anymore.... same with the 50cal.