Military Question

[sAsLEX]

Trust me, No one just holds the trigger down and lets off over 120 continuous rounds without damaging something.

Depends who you working for!

[Dafe]

Depends who you working for!

I'm talking rifles dude.

Aunty Helen showed me the light and I 717'd. Never looked back.
Although I will miss the SE Asia tours with the old toys!

[Swoop]

The South Africans are tops though, but face jail time if they go home, Aussies are heros, Kiwis are just investigated for tax evasion.

A mate working in Afganistan says different. They got rid of the Saffies and only have 2 Ozzies in the unit now. Kiwis predominantly. They used to have a few Merkins...


There was a firepower demonstration some years ago where a row of spaced apart Fig 11 targets were set up. Full noise was sprayed in their direction and the results recorded. From all the lead fired downrange, I believe there was either 2 or 1 round/s that actually hit the targets.

[doc]

A mate working in Afganistan says different. They got rid of the Saffies and only have 2 Ozzies in the unit now. Kiwis predominantly. They used to have a few Merkins...


There was a firepower demonstration some years ago where a row of spaced apart Fig 11 targets were set up. Full noise was sprayed in their direction and the results recorded. From all the lead fired downrange, I believe there was either 2 or 1 round/s that actually hit the targets.

We during training compared full auto to single aimed shots in a claymore ambush ambush at night, targets were quietly moved down a strained fence wire at the usual 2am sort of alert stage the patrols that used auto usually didn't have any 5.56 rounds in the fig 11's if they did it was prbably only the one. The real ambushes didn't need any rounds fired after the claymore's were initiated still have "Industrial Deafness" as they call it hiding behind your pack didn't give you much audio protection

[Winston001]

Thankyou everyone for your posts and it is interesting to see there are different points of view. I am however surprised that there isn't a common training system in all armies, regardless of nationality. Instead, from what various people have said, rates of fire seem to be a decision that is made at platoon level rather than a military doctrine.

I'm well aware of the exception to conserving ammo when close to a firebase or resupply. Not a problem, but otherwise the modern soldier needs to be quick and mobile which means not carrying too much ammo. And using what he has effectively.

[Bend-it]

We never ever fired our weapons on full-auto, not even on short bursts... Semi-auto fire's much more accurate and quick enough. Even the GPMGs fired short bursts, seldom on full auto for very long at all.

Maybe we're just cheap arses and don't want to pay for ammo...

[The_Dover]

However, Everybody previously has mentioned letting rip on these group guns.
As I found out, if you hold the trigger down and let the rounds off non-stop........ Your barrel will melt and bend from the heat after approx 120-150 shots.

In any squad, you have a gun group. The Gunner has an ammo loader/barrel changer to assist him.

The group gun still needs to let rip in bursts to try and hold the heat from cooking the barrel.

Trust me, No one just holds the trigger down and lets off over 120 continuous rounds without damaging something.

Thank fuck Dafe, I'm glad somebody said it cos the smell of BS was really getting up my nostrils.

[Dai]

NZ army inn the 70's. Used SLR semi auto only. Carried 120 rounds 7.62x51mm . Bloody heavy.

Brit army in the 80's. MP5 120 rounds of 9mm. Still heavy but not as much.

Later when the SA80 came into use we werent allowed to fire on full auto as the rifle failed.

Dai.

[Hoon]

So I've always wondered how accurate the descriptions of shooting are in a firefight. There just seem to be too many bullets fired. Admittedly ammo supply at a defended position wouldn't usually be a problem.

Firefights aren't just an every man for himself yippy affair. They follow a strict doctrine, a procedure which every soldier gets drilled into them as recruits. Much like a set-move in rugby, everyone must know the play, whats required of them and when it needs to be done. These doctrines are called Battle Drills and every Army has them.
Phase 4 of the NZ Battle drill is to "Win the firefight" (The yanks call it "Suppress the Enemy"). All this means is that you lay down shitloads of effective fire to suppress the enemy so he ducks down and can't shoot back at you. This takes as much ammo as needed - sometimes just a few well aimed shots, other times most your ammo. Once you achieve that then you can move on to the next phase - assault/attack.

However when you work in small 5 man teams and you are bumped, you want to make as much noise as you can to try fool the enemy in thinking there are more of you than there actually are. You might let rip on full auto as well to make them think you are a machine gun.

However, Everybody previously has mentioned letting rip on these group guns.
As I found out, if you hold the trigger down and let the rounds off non-stop........ Your barrel will melt and bend from the heat after approx 120-150 shots.

In any squad, you have a gun group. The Gunner has an ammo loader/barrel changer to assist him.

I've fired hundreds of rounds through my gun at once and had the barrel glowing red hot setting the grass around it on fire. The newer heavy barrels are heaps better and you don't have to change them as often.

In our 5-man dismounted recon patrols we'll carry 4 Steyr/M203's and 1 LSW C9 (maybe a 3/2 split in Open country). I'm usually a gunner or scout but as a gunner I don't have a No.2 and carry everything myself.
Earlier this year there was a spot going on an Ex to Aussie as a rifleman so I jumped in. I was on the C9, my No.2 was a useless ballbag so I carried all my ammo. Every single pouch I had was full of belt, no water bottles (had a camel back), wearing body armour and kevlar helmet in 42C heat! I had 1100 rds on me and used the lot - Thanks John Howard!

[2much]

Depends who you working for!

Now that's one toy that I really miss.

Sorry mate but the Phalanx CWIS doesn't fire continuously. First burst is 1/2sec, following bursts are approx 2sec duration. With a max rate of fire of 4500 rpm, that's a max of 150 rounds thru 6 barrels in any one burst.

Sounds fucken mean tho.

I'm talking rifles dude.

Aunty Helen showed me the light and I 717'd. Never looked back.
Although I will miss the SE Asia tours with the old toys!

Loved watching the Kiwi pilots during Flying Fish. Respect to those guys, fuck they could fly those things.

[doc]

I've fired hundreds of rounds through my gun at once and had the barrel glowing red hot setting the grass around it on fire. The newer heavy barrels are heaps better and you don't have to change them as often.

In our 5-man dismounted recon patrols we'll carry 4 Steyr/M203's and 1 LSW C9 (maybe a 3/2 split in Open country). I'm usually a gunner or scout but as a gunner I don't have a No.2 and carry everything myself.
Earlier this year there was a spot going on an Ex to Aussie as a rifleman so I jumped in. I was on the C9, my No.2 was a useless ballbag so I carried all my ammo. Every single pouch I had was full of belt, no water bottles (had a camel back), wearing body armour and kevlar helmet in 42C heat! I had 1100 rds on me and used the lot - Thanks John Howard![/QUOTE]




Fukin Legend must have been good stuff that "grass"

[doc]

I've fired hundreds of rounds through my gun at once and had the barrel glowing red hot setting the grass around it on fire. The newer heavy barrels are heaps better and you don't have to change them as often.

In our 5-man dismounted recon patrols we'll carry 4 Steyr/M203's and 1 LSW C9 (maybe a 3/2 split in Open country). I'm usually a gunner or scout but as a gunner I don't have a No.2 and carry everything myself.
Earlier this year there was a spot going on an Ex to Aussie as a rifleman so I jumped in. I was on the C9, my No.2 was a useless ballbag so I carried all my ammo. Every single pouch I had was full of belt, no water bottles (had a camel back), wearing body armour and kevlar helmet in 42C heat! I had 1100 rds on me and used the lot - Thanks John Howard![/QUOTE]



"Fukin Legend" must have been good stuff that "grass" did ya get any seeds bout time to get it started again frost finished eh bro

[doc]

Sorry guys those two posts in a row don't know if it was a "Double Tap" or a 'UD" Still tying to sort out these new meds....

[geoffm]

I wanna go to Kentucky, and not for the whiskey and do this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...79956771459066
and
http://www.machinegunshoot.com/forum...splay.php?f=13
at this place
http://www.knobcreekrange.com/

Reach out and touch something (lots and lots of times)

[Winston001]

Just as a matter of interest, stumbled across a study of 7.62 ammo versus 5.56 http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/1986/MVT.htm

They conclude that the 7.62 is better on the basis that the round hasn't been developed as far as it could be, and modern bullet deflecting armour etc stops 5.56mm.